Game Development: Petrified Reindeer

[neeco]

Permadeath is actually fun. Without that threat, you'd play the game entirely different. And man you are thrilled when you are about to loose your character! However, after the fact of death, many people quit - including me.

So maybe it's really:
Long term character development, permadeath, sustainable late game
Pick 2?

I like permadeath as a mechanic. The lessening of the harshness of it has admitedly saved my char at least once this world. But this guy has a point. When I died early world (a week before the mechanic was released) I was fine with rebuilding. But now at 10k+, rebuilding would be a couple weeks of shoving my face with cheese and questing 24/7. I would probably just wait till next world.

[Granger]

The big unanswered question is: what could an endgame for H&H be?

Should it be fun PvP (so far the best idea anyone seems to have come up with) then IMHO we need a world where

• existing characters are not afraid to participate
• dead characters will be happily reincarnated as they're able to join back into the carnage within a reasonable timeframe*
• new characters get created as they can be brought up* to be competing with the ones that started at the beginning

else we'll stay stuck with

However, after the fact of death, many people quit - including me.

and

But now at 10k+, rebuilding would be a couple weeks of shoving my face with cheese and questing 24/7. I would probably just wait till next world.

and viewtopic.php?f=40&t=57497 in general.


* with this I don't refer to auto-feasting bot produced peppered cheese for days

[abt79]

Been inactive for a while, just popping in real quick to say Fuck you Jorb we don’t need this wound.

“Haha its not a big deal dude” yeah hit me up again next world when your survival is at 1 permanently instead of the 2000 it is now

[jordancoles]

Deadman mode in runescape has a catch-up mechanic which might work for bringing back permadeath

When you die, you get 50x's exp gain rate on skills you lost (until you reach the lvl your character was at previously, and only in those specific skills)

There is a rebuild period, but there is also an incentive to push for higher numbers each 'reincarnation' since you can essentially lock in at a higher bracket and rebuild to that level fairly quickly

[Granger]

Deadman mode in runescape has a catch-up mechanic which might work for bringing back permadeath

When you die, you get 50x's exp gain rate on skills you lost (until you reach the lvl your character was at previously, and only in those specific skills)

There is a rebuild period, but there is also an incentive to push for higher numbers each 'reincarnation' since you can essentially lock in at a higher bracket and rebuild to that level fairly quickly

Dosn't solve the issue with players who didn't start at day zero.

[jordancoles]

Deadman mode in runescape has a catch-up mechanic which might work for bringing back permadeath

When you die, you get 50x's exp gain rate on skills you lost (until you reach the lvl your character was at previously, and only in those specific skills)

There is a rebuild period, but there is also an incentive to push for higher numbers each 'reincarnation' since you can essentially lock in at a higher bracket and rebuild to that level fairly quickly

Dosn't solve the issue with players who didn't start at day zero.

The only somewhat decent solution I've seen so far was to have each combat interaction scale itself based on the participants involved and their stats in relation to one another.

They have 100 ua, you have 1000. You may only have a maximum of a 60% stat advantage over your opponent under this system. Stat caps are not added, and there is still an incentive to raise your stats as high as you can to increase the likelyhood that you'll outstat any random person that you may encounter and therefore have the upperhand in most cases, but on the other hand, if you are the underdog you will not be outstatted hundreds of times over.

The problem with this system is that you can simply make throw-away rage alts and be the underdog in every scenario yet bring along many of your other low-investment friends to take out solo titans with much more investment.

[Granger]

The amount of computer gamers who are interested in starting to play a game where they're guaranteed to always be at a disadvantage (in a PvP game) is tiny, compared to ones that prefer a fair chance. This is clearly reflected in the concurrent user statistics of H&H over the lifetime the recent worlds. Any mechanic that dosn't allow latecomers to reach the levels of the existing characters will fail to attract users outside of a world reset.

[jordancoles]

The amount of computer gamers who are interested in starting to play a game where they're guaranteed to always be at a disadvantage (in a PvP game) is tiny, compared to ones that prefer a fair chance. This is clearly reflected in the concurrent user statistics of H&H over the lifetime the recent worlds. Any mechanic that dosn't allow latecomers to reach the levels of the existing characters will fail to attract users outside of a world reset.

Equal standing in all PVP interactions will effectively remove 80% of the game's grind and progression though.
If everyone is equal on day 1 vs day 1000 then what is the point of grinding?

Buy some gear and then PVP for a bit only to then log off when your gear breaks or after you get bored of cycling the same combos until one of your hitpoints reaches zero? Even with a great combat system, it wouldn't keep people logging on long-term aside from a handful of combat nerds

That's also assuming that the PVP system itself is fun, which at the moment I would say it is not. PVP and spars for the sake of spars/fun just don't happen from what I have seen.
Out of all of these worlds I have met one guy who regularly messages me asking for spars and tbh I think he must just be a little fucked in the head

[Enjoyment]

So maybe just leave alone PvP as end-game goal, and focus on somethig else? Like periodic map expansion with the excitement of discoverering new lands with maybe some unique/better q resources, building new bases, establishing new trade routes and etc. There could be a try atleast. Just to keep world alive.
And maybe this could lead to all those ''PvP-gods'' would become useful again and have some fun, fighting each other for central hubs or outer outposts?

[roboboy33]

I think a maximum advantage is a great idea, I also think it'd work very well paired with no minimum disadvantage. So a 100ua player stays the same against a 1000ua player as it does now, but the high ua player can't utterly destroy the lower statted player in a few hits. This makes it so that titans can't just be swarmed by 100 alts and killed, and newbies aren't ko'd right at the start of a fight. This would also give titans a consistent experience where they are at an advantage but still have a slight risk to combat.