Game Development: Siege Chess

[dageir]

Shorter engagement time increases the chance of proper combat.

Or it increases "skip to next base" faster instead of any combat.

Maybe, but you get 24 hours of prep time and you will know when the siege turns into assault. To accomodate the defender one could even allow him/her to choose the window within a certain range.
If defender does not choose it will be a default time. Limiting assault time would make for some interesting play.

[Omnipotent]

Thanks for the update guys. It may not have been what all of us wanted but its a change to siege as was requested by the 1% who spammed with all of their alts. Just know that you just gave them an inch, so they will want a mile. Like Kaios said, they won't stop whining until they can destroy any village in a short period of time. Regardless, I too really hope we can move on from this now. The only thing missing here is the ability to easily take down unclaimed palisades around natural resources (literally every Rock Crystal I have seen is claimed already; which means it is currently impossible to found a realm without trading).

It seems to me the general consensus for the average player is that we don't really care about siege. I would imagine the top 1% to 5% will be the only people who are attacking active villages. Everyone plays this game for different reasons, but I think we can all agree that we enjoy collecting things and improving our base and character over time. Nobody enjoys to lose most if not all of the work and progress they have done; so it will never be possible for both sides to enjoy themselves and have a win-win like Jorb seems to think is possible. It has a place and I understand why it exists, but it will never be fun for both sides, regardless of your intention.

It would be better a lot better for the health of the game and for the devs to focus on more worthwhile content, rather than on more ways to destroy content. I understand why the top 1% want siege, but unless we implement something like EVE's system it's probably never going to work for everyone. And again, they won't stop whining until they can break any wall in a short period of time.

This game is all about zerg in numbers, so they will always win. The combat system is so basic that even if you have higher stats (and combat knowledge/skills), they just need to have more people and you lose. There is no skill necessary, only numbers. They really don't need more ways to grief other players into quitting. If you guys are smart and care about the player numbers, it would behoove you to be more careful about what changes you plan to implement in the middle of a world for the foreseeable future. In the last two weeks we've seen a notable loss in population. The last few updates were pretty lackluster too. Not trying to be disrepectful, I greatly appreciate any and all work you guys put into the game. Just trying to look out for you and give you my honest and unbiased opinion.

A lot of the successful sieges in the past were done through griefing, exploits, and internal troubles. And those have nothing to do with legitimate combat or siege.

After reading may of the other views in this thread, I am clearly not the only one who feels that siege changes are not worth the time and effort.

Serious question: how many people even really care about siege? I guess updates like this are mostly just disappointing to me because it's at best, nothing, and at worst me having to worry that the game is going to break in some new and fun way that didn't exist previously.

...

TLDR I feel like siege can never "work" in the current iteration of H&H and I'm ok with that, just hate to see the time spent on it I guess

I still think Siege is kind of a "no-win" situation that only 1-5% of the population would ever really use so it shouldn't be focused on that much. All most players really want out of siege is for the ability to break down palisades that are protecting local resources.

Tbh, i think bothering with siege is only going to irritate people and the people who want you to rework siege won't be happy unless they can walk up and push your wall over with little to no effort. I hope we can move on from this now.

I've said it before and I will say it again: I don't think siege, in the sense of gaining full theft and vandalism access to an entire village through whatever system, will ever work in a way that will satisfy the attackers.

... The losses of unsuccessful defenders will always greatly exceed the gains of successful attackers, therefore no 100% base raid system can ever be fairly balanced yet still be fun for attackers.

... <Snipped a lot of other good examples in this text>

Quite frankly, this does seem to be the general consensus amongst players pushing for siege changes. If they can’t destroy your whole village in a short time-frame they really won’t be pleased with any changes until that time.

[Aceb]

@dageir
The issue is that both attacker or defender would be able to choose hours the other can't be on. (assuming they have the knowledge). So your so desired combat won't either happen but trying to cheese and get free way to get inside.

[dageir]

@dageir
The issue is that both attacker or defender would be able to choose hours the other can't be on. (assuming they have the knowledge). So your so desired combat won't either happen but trying to cheese and get free way to get inside.

I still find it reasonable that the defender chooses the time span since they are the "victim" and attacker does choose the day, but not the hour.

[Ag_Revol]

Cmon, how many posts do we see in the moot about said faction ganking noobs ?
They kill them because it's easy and they have a good laugh, not because it's profitable.
So if it's easy to raid them as well, why would they not ?

Ganking isn't the same as purposely raiding. I am part of big faction and I know that even if ganks occur it's not because our fighters love bullying noobs, it's because these noobs may be enemy villager/ally/somehow benefit them. And these ganks only happen on enemy territory. No-one comes to another continent just to kill some sprucecaps. However, someone may come to hurt the enemy lines.
I think adding "Raiding window" system or at least making it half a day (instead of 32 hours lol) in a row may be fair.
TBH It would be interesting to look at this system connected with raiding window idea. May turn out interesting and, I hope, fair.
I see a lot of messages like "Big faction players don't have real lifes and play the game 24/7". It's not true (TBH the most no-life people I met are always hermits).
I really doubt anyone will bother raiding noob for 12 hours in a row instead of spending this time working for money/having fun with gf/chilling any other way.
Unless, of course, you somehow anger the faction by the degree they want you erased (Which is hard)

Yeah, You can split those 30 people where on average, one could spend +1hour defending the siege engines from defenders. If it's enemy faction You attack, suck it up boy or thin their numbers beforehand.

So, in fact, it is only possible to raid the weak without any way to fight relatively big communities.
Like for example ADvsHH conflict. Gathered forces are plus minus the same. Losing even 20% before the battle is equal to losing the battle.

[borka]

Why should i care about siege when i can have midges?!?

Login ... dang ... health down ...

[boshaw]

I think adding "Raiding window" system or at least making it half a day (instead of 32 hours lol) in a row may be fair.
TBH It would be interesting to look at this system connected with raiding window idea. May turn out interesting and, I hope, fair.
I see a lot of messages like "Big faction players don't have real lifes and play the game 24/7". It's not true (TBH the most no-life people I met are always hermits).
I really doubt anyone will bother raiding noob for 12 hours in a row instead of spending this time working for money/having fun with gf/chilling any other way.
Unless, of course, you somehow anger the faction by the degree they want you erased (Which is hard)

Raiding windows will just push people who don't want to be raided, ie big factions, to making villages within villages with raid windows offset so far that you'll come right back to the forums crying that it's impossible to raid them when you realize how long it'll take. Why should raiding be a simple task when the reward for a successful raid is demolition of their base when reward for defense is just knowing you made them waste resources that aren't even a big deal, aside from brimstone but even that's not that hard to come by especially as a big faction who probably walled them in. The people in this thread who want super ez raiding want it because they know their base will always be unraidable because of numbers or obtuse designs that game the system while everyone else will suffer for their own pleasure.

[Kaios]

Should we add that they're the one that will find every exploit possible to not get raided ? aka claim overlapping etc ?

Yes that is accurate. I recall during the introduction of the shield mechanics we had villages such as Dis creating two idols, one which had a border claim surrounding the outside of the village and its walls and then a separate inner claim which I believe did not overlap creating two full claim shields and that both would be required to be sieged. That is generally how it goes, the bigger villages/factions always go for the most extreme forms of protection should the mechanics allow for it.

[Omnipotent]

The people in this thread who want super ez raiding want it because they know their base will always be unraidable because of numbers or obtuse designs that game the system while everyone else will suffer for their own pleasure.

Completely agree. The only people pushing for EZ Raiding are the ones with the advantage. If they didn't have the strength in numbers that guarantees them an easy victory, they would not be pushing for easy raiding.

It's pretty obvious who is on what side.

[Darkins]

Ok..Asked for resonable sidge coz camping 24 hours at battering ram is unachiveble...
got update after you need camp 24-32+ hours and build a shitton of tower,catas and rams...
gj..
People that leveling 300+ua to have some fun screaming in terror when they see "make ez sidge" words and they waiting for REAL pvp bois to leave the game..they fear to get killed and they cant fight when there are 1 person more that they have.
Even meteorites cannot provide PvP expirience now - some 'BEST FIGHTERS' in the game just hiding behind walls , and ask devs for protection, waiting for ppl leave the game, so they can rule' and looks like i just gonna drop the game soon and consider myself winner of some sort, i tired of "nothing happening" for 2mounths
Everyone in this game become scary wet cats.
whats the point of having rage and ua if you cant even use it?
what the point to have battering rams , catapults, if you cant use it?
whats the point to have +-RARE rat-on-stick food (2%hunger , energy -500% , will-2 , psy - 0.5)
while you can catch krickets and roast it and it gives (2% hunger , energy -700% , will-2 , agi-1)
??????
Devs just dont know what the game they want to develop.They dont know what they doing.Thats a problem.Devs need to think about how their game should look like - farming|mining simulator or sandbox SURVIVAL with parmadez
for ""95%"" people in this topic -> Go cry about:
How you scared to lose your precious basement and character , coz you stupid and cant make allies and find protection , or just make an agreement with those who gonna siedge you....
There are different games , and all game have GAME OVER screen. remember it.ITS OK TO LOSE THINGS, but you cry like little baby that are about to lose they candy