Game Development: Stalking Garden

[loleznub]

People wouldn't need to throw "tantrums" if you guys didnt do dumb stuff like this in the first place. This is the second time in what a month?

And therefore the most basic courtesies go out the window? No version of the game is final to us. We could get better at seeing the perspective of the player, but the reverse is also true.

If you want to talk about "most basic courtesies" it goes both ways. Want to make massive changes? Fine. Then let the players know in the "In the Pipe" section because that's literally the purpose of that, instead of completely blindsiding the community. I would suggest at least 2 weeks notice to these types of changes. For example: "We will be looking into the gardening system, to include pots and credo. Be sure to plant anything now, as you may not be able to in the upcoming future." Easy solution.

As for seeing it from the dev perspective, that's impossible to do because you guys don't tell us anything. If you want us to see your perspective, then you have to give us information. Where's the data you're using to make these changes? My data comes from play experience, and from what I know of the gaming industry, making executive decisions based on gameplay experience (The players) is far superior than decisions that are made through spreadsheet (the devs). In fact, I would argue that a game that makes the majority of decisions based off spreadsheet information instead of gameplay experience is doomed to fail. You only see numbers on spreadsheets, so you can't measure fun, which is where this particular update failed big time.

So please, give us the ability to "see the perspective of the developer" if you really want to bring that up. I look forward to the immense amount of data being made available to the community.

[jorb]

Point merely being that we don't evaluate changes against present level of investment in a particular mechanic, and nor do we view the latest change as finalities. Our development is very rarely driven by any formalized set of data.

I respect the desire to be more involved, but I also don't think us spending too much time on meta work -- writing design document, compiling and sharing vast data sets that may or may not be interesting, asking for feedback and permission and running test servers for every little change we want to make -- is really viable.

[loleznub]

I can only agree to disagree with your viewpoint being correct and beneficial, then.

I guess at least now we know that the C&I subforum literally doesn't matter one bit since nothing there is taken into account and everything is done via what you're feeling the "flavor of the day/week" is.

Feelsbad.

[jorb]

I guess at least now we know that the C&I subforum literally doesn't matter one bit since nothing there is taken into account and everything is done via what you're feeling the "flavor of the day/week" is.

That's a bit of a wild conclusion. Avoiding this kind of absurd martydom and wild either-or thinking might improve the quality of the discussion.

[Enjoyment_2]

asking for feedback and permission and running test servers for every little change we want to make

calling removing the 90% of credo "little change" is a bit wild too

[loleznub]

asking for feedback and permission and running test servers for every little change we want to make

calling removing the 90% of credo "little change" is a bit wild too

See, this guy understands the point in making here..

The discussion I present is based off the standards you've provided. In essence, a taste of what you're giving us.

[jorb]

Nothing further to discuss, then.

[loleznub]

So it would seem, now to only hope you've learned the players perspective

[jorb]

We can only hope.

[Latikai]

A true shame that the discussions here never seem to be able to be done in a civilized manner.
Yes, I agree with jorb and loftar that it would be nice to have people out and about more, wandering the world.
That said, I also agree with the other people, saying that nerfing gardening pots wasn't the way to do that; it took away convenience but alternatives to food from those foraged herbs are superior in quality and (bulk) accessibility.
I also see (but don't know from personal experience) people argumenting that combat is so bad that they don't go foraging very much out of fear of running into someone that knocks them down.
It's true i had significant investment in gardening, both in almost finishing the credo and having a decent number of pots made, but it's also true that, as a medium-game hermit, foraging has become all but obsolete for me: the food I eat is all produced in-base, even without those gardening pots. As much out of convenience (as I don't have very much time for long foraging trips) as out of superiority, admittedly.

A thought: maybe the one-update-a-week schedule you impose on yourself is in some sense causing this, putting pressure on releasing patches like this last? At least part of the frustration of the community, I feel, is that these type of patches seem to hit completely out of the blue. Parts of it seem poorly thought through (such as the gardener credo quests after the nerf, bluebells still being nerfed after being removed from gardening pots, ...), making it increasingly look like a 'whim of the day' nerf patch.