Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Announcements about major changes in Haven & Hearth.

Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby DarkStalker » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:49 pm

I think, that there should be both stopping and non-stopping attacks, balanced around this. Also, for running away, the only viable option is just to stun player if he completely misses. Or you can add some kind of slowing projectiles like nets or some kind of projectile, that inflicts slowing wound. Without that, a naked person could easily run away from a full-armored knight, just like in real life, so ability to attack would be used only to secure the place from the enemy (while looting or sieging) and not just to hunt down players. For hunting down players the ranged combat would be the viable option in that case. About the bot part, you just need to make enough of viable in different situations attacks, so there is no optimal sequence to spam with perfect timing to win every fight (and that requires some kind of interaction with environment like kicks, sidesteps near enemy knocking off with weapons, etc). I am a big fan of something like Parry skill, but implementing that would just make an Auto-Parry option to the custom clients (considering windup animation).
Implementing combat stamina is also the way to go, so everyone who is spamming moves would suffer from low stamina at the crucial moment.

Another thought about bots that you can make some attacks to use the same animation on the client side, but to have different effects, so what attack is used would only make sense to the real player or some deep-learning AI, implementing which is worth rewarding anyways:D

Also the Legacy Combat felt deep, but just unbalanced, so working around it would also be cool.
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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby HasseKebab » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:56 am

Unless you're some kind of a godlike bot scripter i dont ever see a pvp bot being a good thing to run instead of your own ability.
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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby dafels » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:58 pm

Yeah, unless you're some AI or machine learning expert of 10 years experience and shitloads of learning data, then I don't think anyone can create a bot that can beat humans, there will be always too many variables involved to make it good by hardcoding the move scenarios and this combat will be way harder to bot than the previous one actually and I didn't see any botters running combat bots in pvp? And if you get rekd by a hardcoded bot, I guess learn2play issue here. Don't ruin combat because of these shitty over exaggerations. Sure, you can create some client features that give you a slight advantage in combat, but that is not botting. The only time I remember in haven when someone had an advantage because of client in combat was in legacy world 6, when a client had implemented double tap instead of having to click the portrait everytime to perform a move, such a small improvement was huge in combat over the ones that didn't have such a feature in their clients.
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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby Granger » Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:36 pm

In case someone is interested in how to automate a game: https://deepmind.com/blog/article/alpha ... arcraft-ii could be an interesting read.
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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby svino » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:03 pm

Granger wrote:In case someone is interested in how to automate a game: https://deepmind.com/blog/article/alpha ... arcraft-ii could be an interesting read.

Not that it's not cool, but it's still much less impressive than the dota 2 openai. In RTS games where you control up to hundreds of units, computers can much more easily thwart humans purely by micromanaging much better. It's physically impossible for humans to control 100 units individually at the same time, whereas it's pretty simple for a computer. The openai team specifically set limits to their bots with reaction times etc, to make sure that it was more a question of beating top players strategically than purely by mechanical skill.
I get that they have to brand themselves but this is just pure bullshit:
"Although there have been significant successes in video games such as Atari, Mario, Quake III Arena Capture the Flag, and Dota 2, until now, AI techniques have struggled to cope with the complexity of StarCraft."
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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby jock » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:10 pm

They should just go stand alone servers allready. Rent them like path and you would see more people play em and they could be restarted and refreshed when players want.
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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby Tziyon » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:56 am

How about not requiring someone to buy a sketchbook, figure out and download Gimp, or farm 1000 bones to "decorate" your knarr to finish building it WTF!!! How ubsurd I just spent a literal week put in I don't know how many hours to run into this crap. Yeah fine 2.50 is cheap but seriously i just paid the 15 bucks just to get nickled and dimed to decorate??? I don't even want to do that let alone take the time to figure out how to use a paint program to lessen my farming time for glue. Honestly let me know when this gets fixed I'm out this is terrible.
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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby borka » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:07 am

It's not like you where offered help, hints and tips in Realm chat and even got sketchbook pages offered for free ?!?
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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby mvgulik » Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:07 pm

Just checking.
Can or can't you build/finish a Knarr whiteout decorating it ?
---
(post below)
HasseKebab wrote:it's optional
Roger, Thanks.
Last edited by mvgulik on Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby HasseKebab » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:14 pm

it's optional
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