Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Announcements about major changes in Haven & Hearth.

Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby dafels » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:00 pm

wonder-ass wrote:
loftar wrote:
wonder-ass wrote:with fluent i mean no stopping of movement. imagine being followed 2v6 and every attack you do you stops you for 1/3 seconds thats a quick death.

Well again, if the attack is instantaneous, then given auto-aiming, there's literally no point to the attacks being aim-based, no? The forced delays are what makes it meaningful.


there could be a delay with out stopping of movement.

yep
PvP is toxic

I want to be dafels
User avatar
dafels
 
Posts: 2331
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:49 pm

Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby Archiplex » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:00 pm

loftar wrote:
wonder-ass wrote:attacks should be more fluent no forced animations in place.

What does "fluent" mean? If you mean the attack should trigger immediately upon pressing the key, then every auto-aimed attack would automatically hit. There's no point to aim-based attacks at that point.
wonder-ass wrote:less spam moves. attacks should be well thought out and not spammed like we have rn in the test server.

This is indeed one of the issues that we felt with the system as well, but we're less sure what a "well thought out" attack would actually do differently.


Truth be told, my impression from what the OP said was different.

I sort of imagines each attack having a visible 'radius' of where it might land before the attack activates (Similar to how some modern mmo's function with sweeping boss attacks)

I think introducing more effects to the attacks would be something that would encourage a less spammy system; Low blow interrupts actions, is fast AND has a short cooldown, which means it can be spammed more or less freely.

What about introducing a per-skill cooldown? Lowblow can remain being fast and having a relatively small 'next ability' cooldown, but cannot be used again until after you use another move/a set duration.
I could also see room for special skills that reduce enemy movements and have a long range (throw stone or something) and way more; this system seems pretty ripe for growth.

loftar wrote:
Archiplex wrote:I am curious how you plan to tackle people who opt to just 'run' from combat, given the delay on most attacks means engaging people sort of requires them to try and fight back.

In Salem, we had an attack that in itself included a fast "jump" towards the destination (and corresponding stun period if you missed to keep it from being just a faster way to move around than walking), so I'd imagine we would add something like that.


That seems viable. I was thinking of above with a very long range, long cooldown attack that could slow people down temporarily.
Highly opinionated, yet highly annoying. I have returned; and it is good to be back.
No story this world, but perhaps the next. For now, we remember the old ones.
Vita en eternum. You shall not be forgotten, my frozen empire.
Contact me @ Archiplex#2035 on discord.
User avatar
Archiplex
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:28 am
Location: In the midst of the stars and skies

Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby maze » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:03 pm

the new combat interesting.

Weapons should change the telegraph of some attack to be wider, and/or longer.

shift or another key should stop your char from moving so you can aim better. it should let your char aim for the first 0.2 sec a little better.

With this system we could add more weapons in and give them pushback, stun or gap (areas they can't hit because to close) elements.

the dodge's should add more interesting elements. possible rolling away.
Skill canceling, if the animation is 1.0 sec long. and the user uses a dodge skill from anywhere at 0.0 to 0.5; the curren skill cancels and you roll.

slow's quick attacks and other skills
quick attacks. the attack happens right away, you jump forward but your animation locked for 2.0sec

better shield machinics - brace for impact. 2.0 animation locked. the char hold shield forward and blocks 90% incoming damage blocking damage infront of him in a 180* degree. the char moves 50% slower but can roll out of it (animation cancel) after 1 sec.

There is a lot you can do with this combat. damage will need to be re-adjusted
WARNING! MY ENGISH SUCKS.
game ideas
User avatar
maze
 
Posts: 2257
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:15 am
Location: Canada

Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby loftar » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:04 pm

wonder-ass wrote:there could be a delay with out stopping of movement.

Ah, sure enough. We actually did try that early on, but found that it kind of felt weird and hard to use. For instance, it was difficult to predict where the attack would eventually end up landing when moving during the wind-up. I could easily change the attacks back to working like that later on if we decide that we want to re-test that.
"Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing." -- Rob Pike
User avatar
loftar
 
Posts: 7751
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:05 am

Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby Redlaw » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:05 pm

Why not add a move or a few that also needs a charge pbar (like a rage bar or something), that gets filled up as you use the other attacks. The super moves could add some variety to combat.

Also have you thought of adding a way to change/scale text size in the client?
User avatar
Redlaw
 
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:58 pm

Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby wonder-ass » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:05 pm

loftar wrote:
wonder-ass wrote:there could be a delay with out stopping of movement.

Ah, sure enough. We actually did try that early on, but found that it kind of felt weird and hard to use. For instance, it was difficult to predict where the attack would eventually end up landing when moving during the wind-up. I might change the attacks back to working like that later on if we decide that we want to re-test that.


having an actual arrow or line showing where the attack is headed in the wind up would be useful to help with that.
Jorb: Go rub sticks, sprucecap.
Image
#GerdgenDidNothingWrong
User avatar
wonder-ass
 
Posts: 1724
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:02 am

Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby Archiplex » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:06 pm

loftar wrote:
wonder-ass wrote:there could be a delay with out stopping of movement.

Ah, sure enough. We actually did try that early on, but found that it kind of felt weird and hard to use. For instance, it was difficult to predict where the attack would eventually end up landing when moving during the wind-up. I could easily change the attacks back to working like that later on if we decide that we want to re-test that.


One thing to keep in mind is that modded clients WILL in one way or another introduce a way to guess the 'regions' of attacks- they did it with archery, they'll do it here, too. I think implementing that in a way you guys think fits (so, with an actual aesthetic instead of big ol' visible hitboxes) would be good, too. Telegraph where an attack will aim for, and encourage other players to be able to react to the attack better (IT's easy now, since the animations are easy to tell and you know the general direction, but I think having a clear telegraph is good)
Highly opinionated, yet highly annoying. I have returned; and it is good to be back.
No story this world, but perhaps the next. For now, we remember the old ones.
Vita en eternum. You shall not be forgotten, my frozen empire.
Contact me @ Archiplex#2035 on discord.
User avatar
Archiplex
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:28 am
Location: In the midst of the stars and skies

Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby loftar » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:09 pm

wonder-ass wrote:having an actual arrow or line showing where the attack is headed in the wind up would be useful to help with that.

Not sure why that would be useful during the wind-up, when you've already chosen heading at that point. Or are you thinking that you could still change direction during the wind-up? Because in that case, it seems you could keep auto-aiming during the wind-up, which again would make aim useless.

Archiplex wrote:One thing to keep in mind is that modded clients WILL in one way or another introduce a way to guess the 'regions' of attacks- they did it with archery, they'll do it here, too. I think implementing that in a way you guys think fits (so, with an actual aesthetic instead of big ol' visible hitboxes) would be good, too. Telegraph where an attack will aim for, and encourage other players to be able to react to the attack better (IT's easy now, since the animations are easy to tell and you know the general direction, but I think having a clear telegraph is good)

Yes, we're very well aware, and if we decide to continue down this route, we'd definitely be adding such things, but we felt this was not the point to waste time on such things, especially if we end up going another way.
"Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing." -- Rob Pike
User avatar
loftar
 
Posts: 7751
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:05 am

Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby wonder-ass » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:12 pm

loftar wrote:
wonder-ass wrote:having an actual arrow or line showing where the attack is headed in the wind up would be useful to help with that.

Not sure why that would be useful during the wind-up, when you've already chosen heading at that point. Or are you thinking that you could still change direction during the wind-up? Because in that case, it seems you could keep auto-aiming during the wind-up, which again would make aim useless.


how so? youre facing real players with their own style of movement they could zigzag change direction stop moving the possibilities are endless. you could make it so some attacks force you to be facing a certain direction so that bots cant just yolo around and would be more harm then good. but overal the stopping of movement in combat for such a long duration just didnt feel fun at all.
Jorb: Go rub sticks, sprucecap.
Image
#GerdgenDidNothingWrong
User avatar
wonder-ass
 
Posts: 1724
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:02 am

Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby loftar » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:14 pm

wonder-ass wrote:youre facing real players with their own style of movement they could zigzag change direction stop moving the possibilities are endless.

I guess I don't really see how it matters if they zig-zag or anything else as long as you can just keep auto-aimimg directly towards them.

Just to clarify, when we were testing attacks that didn't stop movement, the restriction they did have was that they prevented any change to the set movement during the wind-up.
"Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing." -- Rob Pike
User avatar
loftar
 
Posts: 7751
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:05 am

PreviousNext

Return to Announcements

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], valeriesusanne and 22 guests