Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby algeralith » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:40 pm

loftar wrote:
algeralith wrote:[images]

That's something I've never seen elsewhere. Does this happen on every computer you've tried it on? Is it just the combat test client? That's really weird. It kinds sorta looks like it could have with DPI-scaling settings to do. Does it?


Right! It happens on the default and test client. Custom clients seem to have the bug fixed.
It is a DPI issue, I did scale my DPI back down and it works fine. Just makes everything else unreadable of course.
I probably should have guessed it was a DPI issue, oh well.

Will be good enough to test Combat changes with I suppose.


Though, it's not really the place to mention this, would be nice if I can render more when I zoom.

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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby Granger » Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:11 pm

algeralith wrote:It is a DPI issue, I did scale my DPI back down and it works fine. Just makes everything else unreadable of course.

Which should have been fixed a long time ago, high DPI displays are quite common for quite some time now (though, as it seems, not on a certain desk somewhere in sweden).

Loftar, would you be so kind to move interface scaling up on your todo list?
It's between really annoying (for the long time users who know how to work around it) and showstopper (for everyone new who checks out the game for the first time). And I'm certain that the second category, should that particular problem be fixed, would have a good chance of returning the investment within a reasonable timespan (instead of the current 'fuck it' -> deinstall -> 'hey friends, stay away from that as it sucks').

Please fix this, soon. It basically destroys the potential of the game to attract new players.
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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby loftar » Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:22 pm

Granger wrote:Loftar, would you be so kind to move interface scaling up on your todo list?

I'm honestly not quite sure how to properly fix it, with less than rewriting the whole UI as vector graphics. I mean, sure, I guess I could add some option to just run the rendered output through a bilinear scaler or something, and I guess you could argue it would be better than nothing, but I'd also argue it'd probably look like shit. Feel free to discuss. I mean, I really don't want to dismiss the issue, it's just that making the UI scalable in an acceptable way seems like a pretty daunting task.

Granger wrote:Please fix this, soon. It basically destroys the potential of the game to attract new players.

Is that really true, though? I get that high-pixelcount displays are fairly common, but are high-DPI displays really all that common? On all the 1440p/2160p monitors I've tested, the game has still been perfectly playable for me. I'm well aware that there exist true high-DPI displays on laptops, but are they really "common" by any metric?
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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby Granger » Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:41 pm

loftar wrote:I'm honestly not quite sure how to properly fix it, with less than rewriting the whole UI as vector graphics. I mean, sure, I guess I could add some option to just run the rendered output through a bilinear scaler or something, and I guess you could argue it would be better than nothing, but I'd also argue it'd probably look like shit.

As long as you stick with an integer factor (so you end up with full pixels without anti-aliasing in the result) it'll look OK enough to last till you find the time for a complete rewrite (that'll hopefully allow free configuration like people are used to from other games).

It might look blocky under a microscope, but at least the ones with a high DPI monitor would be able to see (and read) it without one.

Please.

Granger wrote:Please fix this, soon. It basically destroys the potential of the game to attract new players.

Is that really true, though? I get that high-pixelcount displays are fairly common, but are high-DPI displays really all that common? On all the 1440p/2160p monitors I've tested, the game has still been perfectly playable for me. I'm well aware that there exist true high-DPI displays on laptops, but are they really "common" by any metric?

resolution.png
resolution.png (1.45 KiB) Viewed 621 times
Though not that high DPI I still have problems with the interface being too tiny.
Might be that I get old and my eyes get worse with the years, but your client shouldn't only cater biologically perfect humans...
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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby loftar » Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:16 am

Granger wrote:3840x1600

Just out of curiosity, what is your actual DPI? The highest-DPI display I have available to myself is my laptop, which is ~6.2 pixels/mm, or ~160 DPI.

Also
Granger, sort of wrote:12:5

The widescreen trend is why I don't use high-DPI monitors for my desktop computers. 4:3 is love, 4:3 is life, even if that means I won't get any high-DPI or high-refresh-rate monitors. The only reason I accept 16:9 for my laptop is only because there's literally no alternative.
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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby Archiplex » Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:55 am

Also, forgot to say: Love the new keybind setup for combat. Way better than the old default.

Kind of feel like i want to suggest also adding a way for you to move with arrow keys/numpad and allow shift+arrow keys or shift+numpad to set your 'aim' in that direction as well, but probably too complicated. The use of the mouse feels like it can have a decent inbetween with the use of the numpad.
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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby Granger » Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:30 am

loftar wrote:
Granger wrote:3840x1600

Just out of curiosity, what is your actual DPI? The highest-DPI display I have available to myself is my laptop, which is ~6.2 pixels/mm, or ~160 DPI.
It's 110 PPI at a viewing distance of ~1m.

Also
Granger, sort of wrote:12:5

The widescreen trend is why I don't use high-DPI monitors for my desktop computers. 4:3 is love, 4:3 is life, even if that means I won't get any high-DPI or high-refresh-rate monitors. The only reason I accept 16:9 for my laptop is only because there's literally no alternative.

4:3.6 is nicer than 4:3 for coding, IMHO, more height is more love.

While 4:3 is a nice idea, having the new one on my desk for a while definitively cured me from thinking that it was the best since bread in slices.
So maybe - would you look at it as two 1920:1600 resolution monitors, next to each other, without the annoying bezel in the middle - even you could learn to like a thing like the 38" Curved I got to replace the dual (4:3) screen setup I had before, ridding me of both the seam between the monitors and around 250W of power consumption (as the new one uses less than half of one of the old ones).

Back to topic: everything runs nicely here and is as it should be (as I adjusted the font and UI element sizes of my OS according to my needs), except the haven UI as it simply is too small - especially the chat.
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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby Vigilance » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:14 am

I DESPISE this combat. Where do I dump my feedback? :mrgreen:
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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby Potjeh » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:33 am

What if initiating attack locked your rotation until the attack finishes? Then you'd have to be in the right position relative to your target when the hit frame happens, so simple following wouldn't quite work. Makes some room for skill and juking. Especially if there's a slight speed penalty when not moving in general direction of your initiated attack. Then we could have attacks with windup that don't take away your movement, which is a frustrating mechanic and makes combat feel unresponsive.
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Re: Game Development: Key Knarr Combat

Postby DDDsDD999 » Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:02 am

There's nothing stopping someone from just running away, and I don't think it's just the lack of a gapcloser move. Literally all of the current moves can be easily dodged, as long as the other person isn't throwing themselves at you trying to land their moves. The stopping to attack makes it brain dead easy to run away from someone trying to kill you, and even if a hit lands it pushes the runner farther away. The runner also has a huge advantage over the chaser where they can just throw an attack behind them and the chaser is forced to dodge.

Everything is based on reacting to other people's moves, which in group fights would be cancer, especially with these hardly distinguishable animations. Legacy animations or don't have moves wind up (noticeably).

Moves being queued when on cooldown, and then activating when off cooldown is dumb. Literally every moba only accepts the player input when off cooldown.
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