Game Development: Patriotic Takedown

[Jake024d]

My main qualm with this system is how it prioritizes moving over attacking.

I think it would be much better if it would cancel my walking and attack when I press an attack button, not wait until I walk to the last place I clicked then attack.

Idk just me but I've missed a lot of opportunities because my guy was too busy walking.

[sMartins]

Having the outcome of a fight be determined by a one off critical hit is terrible.

Don't get too confident, sin of pride.

[pimotimo]

I think we should start with simplier abilities and keep adding new mechanics little by little, this take down ability is a bit too OP imo (havent had time to test much myself). I like the system overall but we have to be careful with all those speed boost abilities to not make them too strong

[abt79]

High speed chase abilities are a terrible idea not only because they go against the entire point of new combat (abilities having to be aimed), but because running away should always be possible in a combat encounter.

You need to fix siege so players actually have a reason to not run away from a fight


On the other hand, attacks stopping your movement makes fights excruciating slow paced and is unrealistic. We have arms AND legs, and can even use both at the same time! Obviously the dainty pirouette of “Kick” or certain other moves like”Jump” etc should still stop movement but we can’t ever really land a hit if we have to just sit there while our target runs out of range

[MagicManICT]

Having the outcome of a fight be determined by a one off critical hit is terrible.

Don't get too confident, sin of pride.

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying to jorb here. I'm in agreement with jorb. David didn't slay Goliath with a "one off critical." One can say Goliath lost due to his ego and pride and wasn't paying attention to a properly placed sling shot that knocked him out so that he could be slayed by a clearly underwhelming force. One might say David used a dirty tactic and blindsided Goliath when he was laughing at who stepped up as the Israelite champion.

Of course, such mechanics don't even exist in Haven right now. Maybe they should? I don't know... It certainly shouldn't come down to randomness, though.

But if there's randomness and just dying to a 1% crit hit, it'll just be bullshit. Might be good for the underdog but for the person whose put hours into their character just to die to randomness mechanics would be so demoralizing.

I'm in agreement with you, but your argument is crap. Honestly, with the system as it is, there is no chance of it coming down to that one percent hit if the other guy didn't also put in nearly the same hours building up a character.

@jorb: I don't play MMOs for MOBA style combat. I play MOBAs for that style combat. It works there: you have maps and characters designed around these various actions and positioning plays. Even the "action based" MMOs have stuck with the same basic principles since UO and EQ came out in the late 90s. I'll be honest, and probably drop out of Haven all together because the only thing I really enjoy is foraging and mining at this point, and you can't do either without interfacing with the combat system.

[Archiplex]

Gosh there's a lot of fuss on whether it should be "easy" or "hard" to get away from combat, and I think there's obvious biases on both sides.

One thing I want to bring in from another game (Wurm, but I won't get into details since it's very different) is the idea of a combat 'handshake'- that is, the idea that once you commit to combat, it's hard to escape.

I think something like that would be feasible to exist- people in general being faster outside of combat, but once they get into the 'heat' of things (either hitting someone or being hit), that their relative speed is slower than otherwise. This means that if someone approaches you when you're not looking for a fight, it should generally be easy to just get 'away' (and frankly, this should be the case- avoiding gank squads and protecting hermits) unless you get caught out and hit by an attack in the first place (to still actually ALLOW surprise attacks to happen).

This also makes combats 'tighter' instead of so heavily movement based like what currently exists- and removes that issue of people who run from combat once their opening is high enough. I also think that there should be a way to start to 'try' and escape combat- perhaps dodge abilities (or Artful evasion) don't allow you to? Or perhaps an IP ability that grants you a large movement speed burst for just a few moments to try and escape- so that in order to escape, you need to land a few attacks/dodges that allow you to escape?

In general I sort of agree with coles in that these autohit abilities feel like they're damaging the intent of the system, but I don't think they 'break' anything (numbers tuning aside)- I just think it's lame they exist.

[sMartins]

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying to jorb here. I'm in agreement with jorb. David didn't slay Goliath with a "one off critical." One can say Goliath lost due to his ego and pride and wasn't paying attention to a properly placed sling shot that knocked him out so that he could be slayed by a clearly underwhelming force. One might say David used a dirty tactic and blindsided Goliath when he was laughing at who stepped up as the Israelite champion.

Of course, such mechanics don't even exist in Haven right now. Maybe they should? I don't know... It certainly shouldn't come down to randomness, though.

Well, I can't say much, but I agree with Shubla, I just know people hates RNG as much as they love it, it's probably the closest thing to irrationality, that's why ..... everybody says to hate it but they secretly love it.
I played enough competitives RTS to see the amount of memes and lols and drama that RNG causes, also does not archery already use it? probably a good place for it, idk.

[MagicManICT]

Archery does not have any RNG that I can see. It's more a matter of being able to learn to predict the firing timer.

, I just know people hates RNG as much as they love it,

It has its place. I play a lot of ARPGs, which are pretty RNG heavy, but the amount of damage and attacks done in them are usually mitigated by the sheer volume of attacks, so any randomness comes out to be a pretty flat bell curve. Most MMOs are in the same place, too, with a damage range, but over the course of a fight, it's pretty predictable and it comes down as much to skill and preparation as to the randomness of the die rolls. Very few of my fights, 1v1 or group pvp, has ever come down to the randomness of the rolls in EVE, WoW, or any other computer RPG. (I won't hold the same statement for tabletop games and dice.)

[Archiplex]

Archery does not have any RNG that I can see. It's more a matter of being able to learn to predict the firing timer.

Archery has RNG; the exact place you 'fire' into is random, but aiming longer reduces the arc.

Of course, that barely matters when using a bow of equal quality to your skill means 90% is about the most you can ever hope to have, and it takes several seconds to get there.

[MagicManICT]

I'll take your word for it, Archiplex. You seem to be our resident Marksman professional. All I've used it for is target practice to do credos, and have had no issue with it at the required ranges for that (about 8 tiles). The few times I had to "put an arrow in X," it's been consistent, too.