Game Development: An Arrow to the Knee

Announcements about major changes in Haven & Hearth.

Re: Game Development: An Arrow to the Knee

Postby wonder-ass » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:04 pm

Enjoyment_2 wrote:Do you ever wonder that "games dies" is true only for 50-100 ppl? have you ever seen jorb or loftar said, "oh, it seems like the game is dead, what should we do to make it alive?"
And just because you think "games population gets fueled by conflict" it doesn't mean it is so. More than that - those "conflicts" are number 1 reason why most ppl rage-quit the game.
And while "strongest point is its social aspect of how players interact with each other" is true for any MMO-game, those "interactions" shouldn't be narrowed to "killing each other"


thats what i meant lol. when conflict goes stale (the strongest group wins and the rest stop fighting back) is when the game dies.
the game is designed in such a way i could avoid conflict for ever basically. there needs to be a middle ground of fighting and losing but not losing to the point the enemy snow balls the entire world.
see homo sexuality trending,. do not do that.
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Re: Game Development: An Arrow to the Knee

Postby MarcusXDead » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:38 pm

wonder-ass wrote: because the games population gets fueled by conflict with out it this game is just a boring and tedious version of better farming simulators. this games strongest point is its social aspect of how players interact with each other.

Did you really just call current pvp a "social aspect of how players interact with each other"?
Like, you won't even finish typing "hi" when someone you've met either hearths out / sprints away on horse or is already smashing your face? To hell with this "social interraction". I find people speaking with each other on different sides of palicade more social than this, at least beacuse they know they can greet each other, chat for a bit, add each others into known persons list and even maybe plan something like trading later. You "fueled by conflict" people made it that way, running around looking for someone to pick on, rather then doing something organized against someone of your size. No no no, bigger boys don't fight each other, too risky (partly because of "losing to the point the enemy snow balls the entire world", but still). Strangly enough you forget about what fuels you when you guys face each other, instead proposing changes that will affect everyone when thinking about your ideal pvp playground.
^The wall of text^
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Re: Game Development: An Arrow to the Knee

Postby wonder-ass » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:31 pm

MarcusXDead wrote:
wonder-ass wrote: because the games population gets fueled by conflict with out it this game is just a boring and tedious version of better farming simulators. this games strongest point is its social aspect of how players interact with each other.


Did you really just call current pvp a "social aspect of how players interact with each other"?
Like, you won't even finish typing "hi" when someone you've met either hearths out / sprints away on horse or is already smashing your face? To hell with this "social interraction". I find people speaking with each other on different sides of palicade more social than this, at least beacuse they know they can greet each other, chat for a bit, add each others into known persons list and even maybe plan something like trading later. You "fueled by conflict" people made it that way, running around looking for someone to pick on, rather then doing something organized against someone of your size. No no no, bigger boys don't fight each other, too risky (partly because of "losing to the point the enemy snow balls the entire world", but still). Strangly enough you forget about what fuels you when you guys face each other, instead proposing changes that will affect everyone when thinking about your ideal pvp playground.


i bet you it was just a random nab with slightly higher stats than you attacking you because why not? the social aspect is you remembering he attacked you grinding some stats and reminding him of that time he attacked you as you kill him. THATS what makes haven so good. you literally cant die in the new system unless you have 40% hhp missing instead of panicking and getting stomped by every single aggressive hermit that lives around you how about you figure out how to run away properly and how to fight vs players.

let me name a few ways hermits stopped me from attacking them:
  • they bribed me
  • they were funny
  • flirting
  • offered some food
  • replied to the things i was saying which continues the dialog

and never beg for your characters life because it doesnt work. and its simply boring.
see homo sexuality trending,. do not do that.
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Re: Game Development: An Arrow to the Knee

Postby kabuto202 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:21 am

So do you have any actual data to support your claim that player conflict causes player activity or is this just more "feel facts"?
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Re: Game Development: An Arrow to the Knee

Postby SnuggleSnail » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:31 am

I think player activity/retention is a bit of a red herring when deciding if a game is good or not. If continued daily logins were the sole measure of if a game is good, then some mobile game designed by marketers to trick you in playing by habit would be the undisputed best game.

I feel it's almost sad to prefer the idea of playing Haven consequence free for multiple years with no significant risk to your progress, as opposed to having meaningful interactions with other players - even if those meaningful interactions could result in you losing everything.


P.S: HHP damage should be somewhere around 10% higher :mrgreen:
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Re: Game Development: An Arrow to the Knee

Postby kabuto202 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:43 am

I think player activity/retention is a bit of a red herring when deciding if a game is good or not. If continued daily logins were the sole measure of if a game is good, then some mobile game designed by marketers to trick you in playing by habit would be the undisputed best game.

They are undisputed best games. Just not for players. They're the best games for companies who enjoy making several grand a day in profit and their share holders.

Also HnH/Salem interactions are rarely meaningful. 99% of the time anyone you meet someone who isn't behind a palisade either: hearth out, run away, or try to bash your face in. Honestly, Jobtar could just replace half the population with bots and none of you would even notice. Oh wait, half of the population are already bots.

I'd be perfectly happy playing my scandanavian farmville explorer game with even less player interaction if it meant I didn't have to worry about a group chunky gremlins resetting my progress because I dared to step away from my desktop for a week for a life/career event.
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Re: Game Development: An Arrow to the Knee

Postby wonder-ass » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:50 pm

git gud
see homo sexuality trending,. do not do that.
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Re: Game Development: An Arrow to the Knee

Postby kabuto202 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:33 pm

Get a life.
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Re: Game Development: An Arrow to the Knee

Postby Vegan420 » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:18 pm

SovietUnion wrote:The idea with animals being "territorial" is actually quite good and corresponds to real life. Let's consider the 2 most common scenarios when an animal attacks a human / hearthling IRL

1.) If you are threatening it by attacking it or just by being in its territory. Then the animal will first warn you and then attack you and its goal is to drive you away from its territory. So let's say the forest it is in. It won't chase you farther away since it completed its goal and thus will de-aggro.

2.) It wants to eat you. So it will chase you until you get away or you're dead (same mechanic as is now). This should be extremely rare though, since even bears don't pick humans as their pray in most cases.

So my suggestion is to implement a mechanic where the animals de-aggro if you run far away from the spot it aggroed you (not far away from the animal itself). Preying animals should only be: A pack of wolves, bears (but with a low chance), trolls. If you want to expand this list then also add badgers (cause badgers don't give a fuck), and goats cause they are vile satanic creatures. Everything else pls put as territorial.


I like this
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Re: Game Development: An Arrow to the Knee

Postby Vegan420 » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:19 pm

Enjoyment_2 wrote:
loftar wrote:
Tahlia wrote:So the other day my husband was walking around our mines, and 7 boreworms jumped out of the ground and agro'd him at once. He was KO'd. With these changes it sounds like something we can't see to avoid might mean straight out death?

It's probably true that boreworms should be reconsidered. I will say, however, that it does not mean "straight out death", because boreworms aren't bloodthirsty enough that the probability of that is particularly large, even with 7 of them at once. But yes, in retrospect it's probably a bit random.

well, you should consider that "aren't they supposed to have a chance to win?" should be always applied to players too.
otherwise, there should be way more events for random death (like food poisoning / lightning strikes / heartattacks etc.) so such particular situations (like spawning 7 boreworms) won't look like bad design.


i also like this, too
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