Game Development: Onion & Bacon

[strpk0]

[*] Small patch, as we took some time to just talk through the game, and everything, this week.

Could you guys discuss this a bit? o:

This, please. It'd be nice to know more about where you guys are headed with the game.

[Ag_Revol]

Short answer: Yes, and yes it is.
Slightly longer answer: Can you elaborate on what this "sense of locality" is? People would probably rather spend time socializing and playing the game rather than walking places on every single character they need to be capable of fast travelling. The kicksled thing, while unintended, atleast reduced the amount of this unnecessary activity. I would even be so bold as to suggest that maybe it's time to accept the fact that repeatedly kneecapping fast travel over and over hasn't been an overall positive thing for the game. I cannot think of one person that enjoys "walking simulator", but I'm ready to be proven wrong on this.

Losing locality means:
* Whoever has the most people spread over the world / has the strongest character - wins by default because they can just whip-whoop around the world wherever they are needed,
* Small markets have no use because you can just use the best one available and it's hard for smaller factions to compete. Nearly impossible.
* Continents are losing their purpose.
^ In this world the idea of localization has been kinda failed because non-CC continents are hella dead, because of fucked up spawns, but if you remove fast-travel barriers as weariness/need to actually visit the place first - you remove the barrier that stops people from controlling the entire world
Seamarks already broke the sense of isolation, because even if you live hell knows where - you'll still be covered by the same faction as everything else. RN you can at least retaliate and break their expansions because you're far and inconvenient to fight, but who cares about that when you can just teleport where you need to.

Although old hnh village teleportation was convenient for trading - it wasn't as good to divide the world, plus people could and did use "signs" or whatever they were called back then.
I'd say removing those barriers in older worlds might have been a good idea, because it was all a boring mess of random generator, where everything was the same, but with continents - it ruins too much. There is a reason going to another part of the world is inconvenient and tiresome.

[wonder-ass]

I feel like when an exploit becomes universally liked it should ring a bell that maybe the design isn't as good as you think it is.

[wonder-ass]

Losing locality means:
* Whoever has the most people spread over the world / has the strongest character - wins by default because they can just whip-whoop around the world wherever they are needed,
* Small markets have no use because you can just use the best one available, and it's hard for smaller factions to compete. Nearly impossible.
* Continents are losing their purpose.
^ In this world the idea of localization has been kinda failed because non-CC continents are hella dead, because of fucked up spawns, but if you remove fast-travel barriers as weariness/need to actually visit the place first - you remove the barrier that stops people from controlling the entire world
Seamarks already broke the sense of isolation, because even if you live hell knows where - you'll still be covered by the same faction as everything else. RN you can at least retaliate and break their expansions because you're far and inconvenient to fight, but who cares about that when you can just teleport where you need to.

Don't sell garbage and your market might actually compete. Don't blame over world teleportation for your shitty market losing to a market that spends 20x your effort.

[shubla]

Short answer: Yes, and yes it is.
Slightly longer answer: Can you elaborate on what this "sense of locality" is? People would probably rather spend time socializing and playing the game rather than walking places on every single character they need to be capable of fast travelling. The kicksled thing, while unintended, atleast reduced the amount of this unnecessary activity. I would even be so bold as to suggest that maybe it's time to accept the fact that repeatedly kneecapping fast travel over and over hasn't been an overall positive thing for the game. I cannot think of one person that enjoys "walking simulator", but I'm ready to be proven wrong on this.

Losing locality means:
* Whoever has the most people spread over the world / has the strongest character - wins by default because they can just whip-whoop around the world wherever they are needed,
* Small markets have no use because you can just use the best one available and it's hard for smaller factions to compete. Nearly impossible.
* Continents are losing their purpose.
^ In this world the idea of localization has been kinda failed because non-CC continents are hella dead, because of fucked up spawns, but if you remove fast-travel barriers as weariness/need to actually visit the place first - you remove the barrier that stops people from controlling the entire world
Seamarks already broke the sense of isolation, because even if you live hell knows where - you'll still be covered by the same faction as everything else. RN you can at least retaliate and break their expansions because you're far and inconvenient to fight, but who cares about that when you can just teleport where you need to.

Although old hnh village teleportation was convenient for trading - it wasn't as good to divide the world, plus people could and did use "signs" or whatever they were called back then.
I'd say removing those barriers in older worlds might have been a good idea, because it was all a boring mess of random generator, where everything was the same, but with continents - it ruins too much. There is a reason going to another part of the world is inconvenient and tiresome.

Very good points all! I think continents would perhaps need some exclusiveness in them (resources?) so there would be reason to inhabit them all. And yeah, seamarkers bad.

[Ag_Revol]

Losing locality means:
* Whoever has the most people spread over the world / has the strongest character - wins by default because they can just whip-whoop around the world wherever they are needed,
* Small markets have no use because you can just use the best one available, and it's hard for smaller factions to compete. Nearly impossible.
* Continents are losing their purpose.
^ In this world the idea of localization has been kinda failed because non-CC continents are hella dead, because of fucked up spawns, but if you remove fast-travel barriers as weariness/need to actually visit the place first - you remove the barrier that stops people from controlling the entire world
Seamarks already broke the sense of isolation, because even if you live hell knows where - you'll still be covered by the same faction as everything else. RN you can at least retaliate and break their expansions because you're far and inconvenient to fight, but who cares about that when you can just teleport where you need to.

Don't sell garbage and your market might actually compete. Don't blame over world teleportation for your shitty market losing to a market that spends 20x your effort.

Why would someone buy from me when they can buy from the big faction that has 10x more people? RN, if you want better markets/goods you can take an effort to set up an alt and actually travel through half the world - and be done with it. And that is fair, that is a good thing. If you can't be arsed - you can use markets that are closeby. Everyone gets their share.
And it's not even about selling shitty items, if you remove barriers then if you're selling items a tiny bit worse than your competitor - it already means people have no reason to trade with you when they can use popular sellers.

To elaborate - I wasn't selling anything this world, apart from trading with sprucecaps for foragebles. Just trying to explain my point.

[azrid]

army of crime alts

Its nothing more than a horror stories for children.

You are absolutely clueless about how people play haven.

[DoverianDragoon]

Why? Must the game really lack any and all sense of locality? Is having to visit the places you want to zap to really too much to ask?

Short answer: Yes, and yes it is.
Slightly longer answer: Can you elaborate on what this "sense of locality" is? People would probably rather spend time socializing and playing the game rather than walking places on every single character they need to be capable of fast travelling. The kicksled thing, while unintended, atleast reduced the amount of this unnecessary activity. I would even be so bold as to suggest that maybe it's time to accept the fact that repeatedly kneecapping fast travel over and over hasn't been an overall positive thing for the game. I cannot think of one person that enjoys "walking simulator", but I'm ready to be proven wrong on this.

Hi! I'm one of those people that enjoys what you call a "walking simulator." I honestly enjoy traveling the world and seeing new places. I see the journey to a new place I want to visit as a worthwhile endeavor - even a quest. That's a large part of the game's charm for me. I'd even go so far as to say that's the point. It makes it feel like an experience and a story instead of just another set of mechanics to make the numbers go up.

I can't say that being piggybacked to interesting places wouldn't be convenient, but I can say that it would detract from the experience and the feeling I'd get from getting there myself. Maybe I'd feel differently if I used alts for the same reasons that others do, but that's just not how I play the game.

I'm not sure if that means I'm in the minority of players or the target audience, but that's not my call to make.

[strpk0]

* Whoever has the most people spread over the world / has the strongest character - wins by default because they can just whip-whoop around the world wherever they are needed,

I'm not sure what you mean by this, are you suggesting that having to spend a few hours to get to a place is an effective barrier to someone that would spend enough time in the game to have "the strongest character"?

* Small markets have no use because you can just use the best one available and it's hard for smaller factions to compete. Nearly impossible.

Small markets have no use because it's simply easier, under the current fast travel mechanics, to find the most popular market, "visit" it and stick to it forever. I don't think I would ever waste my time travelling to some small new market if I don't know it might be gone in the next few days.
Small markets used to be quite succesful in the legacy days with fast travel, because all you needed was an alt and a village idol to trade with people, thus any newcomers to the trading scene could post a thread, offer decent prices and immediately get interested customers.

* Continents are losing their purpose.
^ In this world the idea of localization has been kinda failed because non-CC continents are hella dead, because of fucked up spawns, but if you remove fast-travel barriers as weariness/need to actually visit the place first - you remove the barrier that stops people from controlling the entire world
Seamarks already broke the sense of isolation, because even if you live hell knows where - you'll still be covered by the same faction as everything else. RN you can at least retaliate and break their expansions because you're far and inconvenient to fight, but who cares about that when you can just teleport where you need to.

Although old hnh village teleportation was convenient for trading - it wasn't as good to divide the world, plus people could and did use "signs" or whatever they were called back then.
I'd say removing those barriers in older worlds might have been a good idea, because it was all a boring mess of random generator, where everything was the same, but with continents - it ruins too much. There is a reason going to another part of the world is inconvenient and tiresome.

I frankly don't know enough about this to properly comment on it, but perhaps it is time to reconsider if continents was a good idea after all, I'm not sure what the purpose of actively enabling people to isolate themselves in an online game that thrives on social interaction is. But feel free to enlighten me.

[Cayur]

Dev stream when, almost been a year without them, they were probably the best thing you started as it gave us an insight on how you currently view the game and possible future plans.
Please bring them back.