Game Development: Iced Bait

Announcements about major changes in Haven & Hearth.

Re: Game Development: Iced Bait

Postby SnuggleSnail » Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:02 pm

kiddoinc wrote:All because I had the gall to ask questions and have a dissenting opinion.


You don't deserve to have a dissenting opinion that spans several pages of shit flinging if you need to ask questions about basic concepts. It's needless effort to ignore your walls of text.

https://ringofbrodgar.com/wiki/Legacy:Scent
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=68515&start=30#p890038
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Re: Game Development: Iced Bait

Postby kiddoinc » Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:04 pm

Bro your gang started off the bat just being nasty. But ok.
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Re: Game Development: Iced Bait

Postby kiddoinc » Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:06 pm

Also, from what I gather you can only pull an offline character right? So wouldnt some clever bois just make a pruple handed outl... errr felon bot that would keep the character online the whole time so they cant be summoned?
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Re: Game Development: Iced Bait

Postby mulamishne » Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:17 pm

kiddoinc wrote:Also, from what I gather you can only pull an offline character right? So wouldnt some clever bois just make a pruple handed outl... errr felon bot that would keep the character online the whole time so they cant be summoned?


I'm gonna be real, I can't tell if you're trolling or not now, like genuinely.

In the old system, you can summon people to their hearthfire, do you just keep your hearth in the middle of nowhere? No walls? If that's the case then yeah the system doesn't change anything for you I guess?
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Re: Game Development: Iced Bait

Postby kiddoinc » Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:36 pm

Not trolling just trying to figure out where you all coming from. I ask a question for knowledge and you all assume a bunch of stuff.

Got it so you summoned them to their hearth fire, if none exists then they are summoned to the scent or insta killed or something.
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Re: Game Development: Iced Bait

Postby jordancoles » Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:31 pm

kiddoinc wrote:Not trolling just trying to figure out where you all coming from. I ask a question for knowledge and you all assume a bunch of stuff.

Got it so you summoned them to their hearth fire, if none exists then they are summoned to the scent or insta killed or something.

Typically it would look like this:
Find a scent to a perp > break into their base > break their HF > port home > summon kill them
Image
Image

Loftar thinks this is cheesey to kill them in your base, but I disagree since you leave vandalism to bash the HF and to get into the base to begin with, and the summoning itself only left assault or something at the time

I see no problem with bringing back the old summoning system, but I would prefer it if you could only summon a perp with no hearthfire by right clicking the scent onto *your own* hearthfire.
There was a small issue in legacy pvp where people would make theft alts without hearthfires so they could summon a dead body in front of someone they were chasing to body block and catch up to them. The push-out mechanic makes this way less effective now than in Legacy, but yeah.

Also the need to place your HF down in a siege camp to port over supplies adds a bit more prep and annoyance rather than having an inventory of scents for supply drops to anywhere at any time. IMO you could even require murderous rage activated to summon, but Snail doesn't like that because it goes against his interests/convenience.
Last edited by jordancoles on Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Game Development: Iced Bait

Postby Kaios » Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:35 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote:
Kaios wrote:Do you play any other games where the players have such a huge impact on the overall dynamics of interaction and a significant impact on player population to the point where some players are quite literally prevented from enjoying their time?


DayZ, Rust, World of Warcraft: Ascension, Tibia, Old School Runescape: Deadman Mode, Mortal Online, 200 different Ultima clones, EVE, Linkrealms, and Unturned off the top of my head.

Out of these the only one that rly has a timeout/gay baby jail mechanic that's just waiting is DMM. It's only like 5 minutes and actually has some impact on gameplay other than wasting your time. You can even still logout and do it later if you need to take a shit, tho. I can tell you FOR SURE if you tried to add a redhand timer to any of these games people would go fucking apeshit ballistic. I think the only reason nobody went apeshit ballistic in hafen over it is because it was added in world 8, and everybody was busy going apeshit ballistic over other stuff.


You didn't address the other question I asked which was whether or not those games are increasing in player count, though I think I could make the educated guess that the majority in that category are not. I do think it's interesting that you mention there being "200 different Ultima clones" but perhaps haven't considered as to why so many make attempts to emulate those older games in the first place.

Anyways, I don't think those are very good comparisons as most of them don't involve the same amount of time investment that a game like Haven & Hearth does. In Rust you spend far less time reaching a point where you are capable of effectively defending and counter-attacking against other players, and the time-investment for crafting and construction is also significantly less in comparison. In Haven & Hearth on the other hand, that is hardly ever the case beyond the early stages of a world. The arguments for why Red-handed is a poor mechanic seem logical and I don't disagree with them, but to say that no consequences for actions are required because the players should enact their own justice has no substantial basis for reasoning.

Just like raiders need tools to perform acts of thievery and destruction, so too are tools necessary for the defenders to perform counters of their own. Consequences don't necessarily have to entail something negative happening to the perpetrator, but at the very least should allow for a reasonable level of retaliation or retribution to occur on the part of the "victim" in the scenario.
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Re: Game Development: Iced Bait

Postby Jalpha » Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:38 pm

Look Kidd I respect your passion but there are some rules for interacting with this community. First is they will troll you anytime anyhow. Don't bite. Second is they will pretend to have the broader knowledge base but they are a clear and obvious second place to the Devs (who ignore them most of the time so don't expect backup). They run constant circle jerks which would break the game if the Devs were dumb enough to listen to them. Fact is the titans have more time than money, are a minority of the player base and contribute little meaningful advice. The Devs aren't dumb (but judging by their hairstyles you could be forgiven for thinking otherwise).

Whatever man. This game is an economically driven model. It does not cater to the minority of players who invest more time than money. Reality check.

Share your opinions bro but don't get invested in narcissistic attempts at defending your reputation. Just ignore those baits. Take this advice from a bloke who bought into their bullshit for a decade or so.

Not everyone who agrees with you can be fucked posting a reply. Especially with the troll patrol of morons all pulling each other's dicks to further their degenerate agendas.

Post your opinions man. They are valid. Just don't bother trying to convince corrupt, biased, morons to your point of view.

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Re: Game Development: Iced Bait

Postby kiddoinc » Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:48 pm

jordancoles wrote:Typically it would look like this:
Find a scent to a perp > break into their base > break their HF > port home > summon kill them
Image
Image

Loftar thinks this is cheesey to kill them in your base, but I disagree since you leave vandalism to bash the HF and to get into the base to begin with, and the summoning itself only left assault or something at the time

I see no problem with bringing back the old summoning system, but I would prefer it if you could only summon a perp with no hearthfire by right clicking the scent onto *your own* hearthfire.
There was a small issue in legacy pvp where people would make theft alts without hearthfires so they could summon a dead body in front of someone they were chasing to body block and catch up to them. The push-out mechanic makes this way less effective now than in Legacy, but yeah.

Also the need to place your HF down in a siege camp to port over supplies adds a bit more prep and annoyance rather than having an inventory of scents for supply drops to anywhere at any time. IMO you could even require murderous rage activated to summon, but Snail doesn't like that because it goes against his interests/convenience.


This is so clear and concise I love it. Thank you.
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Re: Game Development: Iced Bait

Postby wonder-ass » Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:53 pm

Kaios wrote:
SnuggleSnail wrote:
Kaios wrote:Do you play any other games where the players have such a huge impact on the overall dynamics of interaction and a significant impact on player population to the point where some players are quite literally prevented from enjoying their time?


DayZ, Rust, World of Warcraft: Ascension, Tibia, Old School Runescape: Deadman Mode, Mortal Online, 200 different Ultima clones, EVE, Linkrealms, and Unturned off the top of my head.

Out of these the only one that rly has a timeout/gay baby jail mechanic that's just waiting is DMM. It's only like 5 minutes and actually has some impact on gameplay other than wasting your time. You can even still logout and do it later if you need to take a shit, tho. I can tell you FOR SURE if you tried to add a redhand timer to any of these games people would go fucking apeshit ballistic. I think the only reason nobody went apeshit ballistic in hafen over it is because it was added in world 8, and everybody was busy going apeshit ballistic over other stuff.


You didn't address the other question I asked which was whether or not those games are increasing in player count, though I think I could make the educated guess that the majority in that category are not. I do think it's interesting that you mention there being "200 different Ultima clones" but perhaps haven't considered as to why so many make attempts to emulate those older games in the first place.

Anyways, I don't think those are very good comparisons as most of them don't involve the same amount of time investment that a game like Haven & Hearth does. In Rust you spend far less time reaching a point where you are capable of effectively defending and counter-attacking against other players, and the time-investment for crafting and construction is also significantly less in comparison. In Haven & Hearth on the other hand, that is hardly ever the case beyond the early stages of a world. The arguments for why Red-handed is a poor mechanic seem logical and I don't disagree with them, but to say that no consequences for actions are required because the players should enact their own justice has no substantial basis for reasoning.

Just like raiders need tools to perform acts of thievery and destruction, so too are tools necessary for the defenders to perform counters of their own. Consequences don't necessarily have to entail something negative happening to the perpetrator, but at the very least should allow for a reasonable level of retaliation or retribution to occur on the part of the "victim" in the scenario.



XD rust is very successful and has a large increase in players and id argue rust is 100x more unforgiving and hard to compete in than haven. Maybe if u put 1/10th the effort that we put in to the game u could compete as well?! Didnt read the rest of your vomit.
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