Game Development: Starboard Bough

[ChildhoodObesity]

Again, you are literally making shit up. This it not an EXTENSIVE LIST WITH EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE. Where did you ever get that idea? This was not a 2 hour rant this was like a 1-2 hour discussion that I was participating in while working in real life. All of these examples were off the top of my head when I haven't even touched the game in like 4-5 months. I didn't even do any digging through PVPspam or our ally chats or anything. Again, all you're doing is literally making shit up to support your arguments. It's extremely hard to take you seriously when all you do is straw man. You're barely even arguing the point I'm making and just adding in new points. Also these interactions are specific to ME, you realize I'm not the only person playing this game right? Your argument can't limit an entire world to my experiences that I thought of off the top of my head lol.

Also I never once said that it doesn't discourage new people from being hostile. If you had any bit of reading comprehension and weren't straw-manning in every argument you've ever made you would know I've said red-handed DOES deter hostile interaction which is one of the good reasons it's a thing. We are talking about PVP specifically here and at faction level. I said "Also I don't think I've ever heard a SINGLE pvper complain about red-handed being a deterrent to PVP."

The reason I didn't want to fight during my breaks is because fights don't last a set period of time, they can range for over an hour, especially if you're constantly getting chased. It's not because I thought wow after winning this fight I don't want to wait around with red-hand when I'm likely within 5 minutes from a safe location lol.

Also I know if I surfed through our discord I could also find many examples of you guys complaining about waiting after red-hand being annoying. I know it doesn't deter you few people specifically since your entire reason for playing the game is to slaughter nabs and shit. However, it DEFINITELY deters a lot of other people like MightySheep, Berthedin, Che, Me in the past, who have all said it deterred us following this change. Actually I know at active periods of the world it DID deter you guys more because you didn't want the concussion from koing yourself because that would mean you can die while PVPing or you might not have enough SHP when a fight randomly starts up (WHICH HAS HAPPENED). The activity of the world obviously has a major impact on how you will behave. You wouldn't even think about mraging when we're actively PVPing and you know it.


You're only mraging now because you know PVPers like Ozzy and Berth and shit aren't playing anymore. When they were playing you were too scared to PVP most of the time let alone Mrage. This is actually a bullshit argument. Why do all of your arguments try to pin reasoning on something you know not to be true.

I love how you're ignoring the point about PVP being far less frequent this world due to crashes and acting like the examples from this world mean everything when you know for a fact the main reason PVP was shit this world is due to crashes and not shit like red-handed. It's actually impossible to have a discussion with you because you just dodge, lie, and straw-man.

[ChildhoodObesity]

You realize that being in your group and knowing you for so long means the people in your group kind of know you guys? You're not fooling anyone by trying to put up some bullshit argument. We all know the real reason you wanted these changes which is why you were laughing so hard the first time you thought you almost convinced Jorb that it was a good change. I remember when I mentioned your true desires the first time you guys begged me in PM to delete my messages and whined that I'm trying to prevent you from enjoying the game without currently playing it. It's funny to just watch you lie and lie to try and make it sound like you have some other reasoning though.

I actually agree that removing red-handed can be great for the game as I've said many times. My entire argument was that there needs to be a SHIT TON of changes before that and removing it know is only benefiting you guys and your nab slaughtering.

[SnuggleSnail]

If you make that extensive list for the entire world considering the length you went on about that specifically the additional cases ur gonne bring up I'm guessing will be trash and there won't be many so my point is just as valid as before. Feel free to do so. It won't be ANYWHERE near as much PVP as I would make on some weeks just by placing rams uninhibited by redhand, which is a completely apples to apples with the fights I made that way this world with regard to crashes.

I killed WAYYYYY more ppl last world during the first 2 months when ppl like ozzy and berth were playing, and it was NEVER an issue. Like I think I killed more ppl in the first 2 months of last world as I did this entire world.

Us complaining about redhand being ANNOYING is an example of redhand NOT deterring us from killing somebody???

You acting like us laughing and being happy about the game getting better shows your insane levels of bias xdxdxd

[ChildhoodObesity]

"The length you went on about it" Hahayes a few discord lines in a small period of time. If you think this makes your point valid then ok xd. All you really did was move the goalpost "LIST SOME TIMES REDHANDED LEAD TO A COMBAT INTERACTION" *LISTS SOME TIMES* "OH NOTHING REALLY HAPPENED IN MOST OF THOSE MAYBE SOME KOS, IT NEVER LEAD TO DEATHS." OK BUD. Why do you think people need to continuously add new examples every time you decide to move the goalpost? I've provided enough in the short amount of time I thought about it to illustrate what you were asking for. Just because you decided to change the pre-reqs for what a meaningful combat interaction is doesn't change shit.

Most of the time redhanded isn't even what's stopping you from building a ram lol. Most villages aren't bannering out far as fuck, I'm pretty sure Monke don't. Also you don't even want to build the ram close because if it's too close they just break it with archery towers inside the wall. It's not overly related. I do agree that placing rams is going to create more PVP scenarios though because it's literally forced. Most of the time this isn't actually a proper PVP fight though and they just want you to leave so they can break the ram lol or they just wait until you're not around to break it. If this isn't what happened you'd be sieging down A LOT of villages, unless of course the fights are happening but you happen to lose EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Also complaining that it's annoying alone doesn't deter you, however, not wanting to get concussion at certain times or be stuck for an hour at certain times has 100% deterred you many times and 100% actively deters people who don't only play the game to slaughter nabs most times.

Also we both know that's not the reason you guys were laughing but ok. What bias do you think I actually have here? I like you guys all a lot, I just think this current change without any other changes before it is really bad for the game. I guess you could say my bias is disagreeing with your playstyle but I clearly don't care enough about that to leave the group or do anything about it. That doesn't mean I don't think it's bad for the game. Maybe it seems like I'm biased because I am arguing against it a lot and I know your actual intentions for wanting this change so much which is why you guys pushed it so hard when most people would have an opposing opinion weren't around to argue against it.

[SnuggleSnail]

Ye, I'm for sure moving the goalpost but not because the argument is bad. Because every time I'm setting the goal retardedly low intentionally to prove a point. I feel like the point has been proven if you've intentionally tried to list everything over the course of like an hour, even if you're not going full autism research mode. The examples you've provided are fucking pathetic.

Haha oh no this fresh alt with a bear cape and a pickaxe is hitting the ram guess the siege is over I'm not getting redhand.

Ye has 100% happened, like I've said. Just not enough to even be statistically relevant. Maybe 5 times out of hundreds, and only with actual fresh spawn actual spruce cap 2 hour old chars? You're acting like it's a 50/50 chance every time, but realistically I think my internet cutting out mid chase has saved more people's lives than redhand. I'm probably an extreme example though, which is something I've never denied. Our village is rly full of extreme cases it seems

[Zyean]

I kinda feel like there's an issue with the crime system in general, but also the game itself has some things in place right now that make players want more punishment

Things that need to change for that to be in place though
1. You need to be able to choose if you murder someone or not, if they would go down to 1 HHP after KOing them you can choose to coup de grace them, otherwise alt bombing someone to get them to leave murder would happen, or just accidentally getting the scent when you didn't want it
2. Make wound recovery a fair amount quicker (as wonder-ass suggested) when not red handed/outlawed, to reduce the punishment from getting KO'd from a player
3. You mentioned wanting to reduce death penalty, maybe that as well depending on what it is
4. Battery/Vandal both encourage alt spam, and battery kind of discourages pvp a bit, something needs to be done, again though, for reducing inconvenience by people who are committing no crimes when they get KO'd, less wounds/concussion damage from pvp? Faster regen when not outlawed?, etc
5. Murder/Theft should probably be punished the most, I'm in favor of how salem does it where they drop their inventory on KO though to not count as theft, however, taking their equipment would result in theft, that Q50 sword might be garbage for you but it probably took that dude a lot longer than 1 hr to get it. For murder, should be something in place for hearthlings younger than X time or missing Y discovery/skill/etc resulting in no penalty when murdered, alt spamming to block sieges and stuff is a thing
6. Tresspass/Assault/Rummaging, probably no change really needed to these

[ChildhoodObesity]

Ye, I'm for sure moving the goalpost but not because the argument is bad. Because every time I'm setting the goal retardedly low intentionally to prove a point. I feel like the point has been proven if you've intentionally tried to list everything over the course of like an hour, even if you're not going full autism research mode. The examples you've provided are fucking pathetic.

Haha oh no this fresh alt with a bear cape and a pickaxe is hitting the ram guess the siege is over I'm not getting redhand.

Ye has 100% happened, like I've said. Just not enough to even be statistically relevant. Maybe 5 times out of hundreds, and only with actual fresh spawn actual spruce cap 2 hour old chars? You're acting like it's a 50/50 chance every time, but realistically I think my internet cutting out mid chase has saved more people's lives than redhand. I'm probably an extreme example though, which is something I've never denied. Our village is rly full of extreme cases it seems

Well whether or not it's pathetic is subjective and you clearly don't understand the full situation. The situation with Kim lead to a full on fight. Most of what you're listing is extremely dumbed down to fit your own narrative. The entire point was that I could think of times red-handed lead to a PVP interaction and I thought of them without even thinking about haven in months, not times where there was some massive faction vs faction fight that lead to 10 people dying and a village being sieged. There is a lot more examples and a lot of other people with perspectives who aren't playing or reading the forum enough anymore to present them.

hahayes our village is definitely full of the most extreme cases unironically

[jordancoles]

Red handed isn't perfect. You can always KO yourself and teleport instantly if you really want to. Outlaw is the more punishing mechanic, imo. Redhanded, however, does work as a deterrent against casual crimes. Don't feel like KOing yourself or waiting around for an hour? Maybe you'll think twice about dropping that noob's hides from their singular drying rack as you boat by.

The threat of becoming redhanded has stopped us in the past, mainly in cases where the loot isn't worth the time. I think the 1 hour timer does do a good job at making people think before they act. The flip side though is once you've become redhanded, why not bash everything and salt the earth? It's only a few hundred hitpoints, and you have to wait an hour anyways.

Also, over the worlds we have definitely found/tracked people who were redhanded. This world I found a wreckingball at one of my outposts within minutes of the dude placing it down. I tracked him out to the ocean, bashed his snekkja, and drowned him. It happens, and similar things have happened in the past.

There are likely better alternatives to the redhanded/outlaw systems, but whatever those better systems may be, I can guarantee you (Jorb and Loftar) that Snail won't be the one to come up with it, or to suggest it.

[Pommfritz]

btw sense thingwall also works when I already have the thingwall discovered, not sure if bug

[strpk0]

There are likely better alternatives to the redhanded/outlaw systems, but whatever those better systems may be, I can guarantee you (Jorb and Loftar) that Snail won't be the one to come up with it, or to suggest it.

"I'm not going to contribute towards making a better system, but you shouldn't listen to snail either"