DevStream 2021-12-20, 20:00 UTC

[VDZ]

• I don't think PVP is really ever used for actual conflict resolution RN, unless you consider me not wanting other people to be alive as a real conflict. Average players are unreasonably terrified of even trying, even verse other average players or nabs. It's my pretty firm opinion that it's the biggest balance issue in the game. People need to be /forced or tricked/ to learn at least the basics. No amount of catch up mechanics or safety nets are going to save somebody who's played for a decade but doesn't know how to lower their red or run away

I don't fully agree. Conflict resolution happens mostly in the threat of violence rather than the violence itself, and I have stood outside someone's claim with drawn sword before to negotiate a matter. In practice I've never had such a situation escalate, but the fact that someone may attack you does provide an incentive to talk things out; ignoring the player is not an option, unlike - as the devs pointed out - when retaliation is not possible as commonly happens on day 1. For me personally, the risk of retaliation is also the primary reason I generally don't commit crimes other than Trespassing.

[donatas081294]

Also boats of sky or whatever it was is it still a thing?

Always.[/quote]

So any plans to update it? Also which site was it again?

[WowGain]

Currently you just avoid anyone remotely dangerous at all cost, because the possible punishment is too big.

death is hardly an inconvenience to recover from. if you're not dumb you wont bring anything out of your village that's too vital for you to lose or would compromise your village security. even without a burial you can regain most of your stats & LP through numen and baseline inheritance.

[vatas]

Also boats of sky or whatever it was is it still a thing?

Always.

So any plans to update it? Also which site was it again?[/quote]
Thread for it is still pinned in announcements: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=56910

[Vraatjuh]

Currently you just avoid anyone remotely dangerous at all cost, because the possible punishment is too big.

death is hardly an inconvenience to recover from. if you're not dumb you wont bring anything out of your village that's too vital for you to lose or would compromise your village security. even without a burial you can regain most of your stats & LP through numen and baseline inheritance.

Isn't it like max 60%? On top of that you lose all your credo progression, which can really suck. We also don't have cupboards of food to get all our FEP's back easily, even though our hunger bar is 300%. I would say this is still quite a big punishment overall for 'nabs'. We usually don't have the industry and time to easily get back to previous stats. If it happens once, most will find the will to play again and recover. If it happens twice in a short time, most just quit.

Losing progression because you made a mistake whilst hunting a bear is fine. Losing progression because you stumbled upon some gankers is just not fun.

[SnuggleSnail]

If you're in the 400 stat range you'd recover to about 320. Gaining 80 str/con/agi should realistically be about 3 cupboards of food. I know all of the autism methods, so maybe my perception of what it's like for you is wrong - but that's a couple hours of effort at absolute most as far as I'm concerned.

It sounds harsh, but if you're above 400 stats and regularly dying you're probably willfully not getting good and deserve it. The game should do a better job teaching you to not be bad, not make it less punishing for you to be bad.

[WowGain]

If you're in the 400 stat range you'd recover to about 320. Gaining 80 str/con/agi should realistically be about 3 cupboards of food. I know all of the autism methods, so maybe my perception of what it's like for you is wrong - but that's a couple hours of effort at absolute most as far as I'm concerned.

Had a character recover from about double those stats in about 5-6 hours of active work this world. Did about half of it before I went to bed and spent a couple more the next day getting the last couple numen points I needed. I'd say for anyone with a modicum of game knowledge that they'd find it to be a similar experience. I did get to do a full burial so I had to spend less time getting numen, but it's really not that hard to do, it'd just take longer without proper burial/state funeral being available.

[wolf1000wolf]

I almost hate to agree with snail but after some thought I've come to the conclusion that the issue of PvP is largely perceptual and psychological.

That is,
1) Having open-world PvP with perma death and full loot is a psychological barrier to entry for new players.
2) The game as it is does a horrible job of managing perception of this issue because
3) Mechanics are obtuse as shit.

Like sure, the mechanics of the game right now allows for PvP encounters gone wrong to have fairly low consequences... but in reality, most players who have not engaged with that side of things before will simply lose too much because they don't have experience running away. Or don't understand openings/combat. Or was stupid and carrying their master key. Or a a whole list of other things that will end up labelling them as a "sprucecap" despite hours in the game.

A large step in the right direction would be if new players had better tutorials and/or all had something like snail's village.

Heck, even an attempt to normalize death would help inoculate new players. Something like "Welcome new hearthling. You WILL die, either from wild critters or hostile heathlings, BUT here's what to do afterwards ...."

[Pommfritz]

I think the bigger problem than losing gear is that people are just unable to build up some confidence by practicing with other people. I would guess most people who play and complain are hermits, it's incredibly hard to make friends in this game without using discord/forum or going to public places like markets.

If you are already living in a village there is no reason you can't get decent. Might take you a little more practise without decent instructions but you can chase around your villagers as well and do sparring.

[shubla]

Its not about practice. Most people just don't want to pvp simply, but play for other aspects of the game.
Devs are not making pvp battle arena game, they even said on stream that they don't have much of experience of pvp.