Prelude: World 14

Announcements about major changes in Haven & Hearth.

Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby Massa » Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:57 pm

Tammer wrote:Two weeks between announcing and launching the new world seems too long to me, unless there's something really cool happening at the end of the world.

Speaking of which, could we get some cool stuff for the last few days? A plague of chasm conchs, or a hail of meteorites, or something?

People need a warning with games like this that ask them for months. Some people put major life changes on hold.
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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby Procne » Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:48 pm

Massa wrote:
Tammer wrote:Two weeks between announcing and launching the new world seems too long to me, unless there's something really cool happening at the end of the world.

Speaking of which, could we get some cool stuff for the last few days? A plague of chasm conchs, or a hail of meteorites, or something?

People need a warning with games like this that ask them for months. Some people put major life changes on hold.

Yeah, if I knew about this 2 months ago then I might have been able to shift my vacation plans. But now I can't, and no new world for me :(
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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby sMartins » Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:40 pm

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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby telum12 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:33 pm

The_Lich_King wrote:I think a soft cap at 500 would be good with a exponential cost of x1.5 the number of FEPs beyond 500. I.E to get from 500 to 501, would take you 501.5 FEPs, but to get from 699 to 700 would take 1000 FEPs. That would still reward people for playing more, but would mean that peoples stat growth would be substantially reduced after the soft cap.


FEP requirement already grows polynomially, and the effect of e.g. STR is reduced by the fourth-square. Changing this to exponential is asinine.
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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby VDZ » Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:22 pm

telum12 wrote:
The_Lich_King wrote:I think a soft cap at 500 would be good with a exponential cost of x1.5 the number of FEPs beyond 500. I.E to get from 500 to 501, would take you 501.5 FEPs, but to get from 699 to 700 would take 1000 FEPs. That would still reward people for playing more, but would mean that peoples stat growth would be substantially reduced after the soft cap.


FEP requirement already grows polynomially, and the effect of e.g. STR is reduced by the fourth-square. Changing this to exponential is asinine.

Actually, while FEP requirement grows, the percentual increase keeps shrinking the further you get.
  • To gain a stat at 10 max stat costs you 10 FEPs.
  • To gain a stat when your highest is 20 costs you 20 FEPs, a 100% increase since you were at 10 stats.
  • At 30 stats, you need 30 FEPs to gain another stat, a 50% increase since you were at 20.
  • At 40 stats, you need 40 FEPs to gain another stat, a 34% increase since you were at 30.
  • At 500 stats, you need 500 FEPs to gain another stat, a 2% increase since you were at 490.
While the total amount of FEPs consumed to reach a certain level keeps increasing, the gaps between the stat gains keep getting closer and closer. In addition, there's also the variety bonus which is more likely to trigger more often as you have to consume more food, which even further reduces the gap between the 'levels'.

In most exponential experience systems, it takes far more experience to get from level 90 to level 100 than it does to get from level 1 to level 50. In Haven's FEP system, if one were to start at 1 stats (you start at 10 in practice, but let's start at 1 for the comparison) it would take 1274 total FEPs to get a stat to 50, but to get from 90 in a stat to 100 takes only 955 - significantly less. Going from 100 in a stat to 110 takes only 1055 - only 100 FEPs more than (or a 10.5% increase from) the previous set of 10.

Of course, there is a major compounding factor here, which is that this increase is applied to every stat you raise; you don't go from level 90 to level 100 once like in stand-still-and-bash-monsters MMORPGs, you repeat that process per stat. In practice, however, better players (not me) tend to focus on very specific stats at the expense of the other stats (see for example the 'Post your stats' thread, where most players have tons of STR, AGI and/or CON while often still having double-digit CHA, DEX and PSY). Only people who try to do everything on their main rather than making dedicated alts for everything get double-fucked by both requiring vastly more FEPs and getting fucked over harder by the hunger system (which is based purely on the amount of food consumed*, not your stats). But hey, at least I have more CHA, DEX and PSY than most of the people who can rape me with ease!
* Akshually, it's the combined hunger of consumed foods, but let's assume people eat efficiently and disregard 95+% of food items in-game as the current hunger system demands.
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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby The_Lich_King » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:01 pm

telum12 wrote:
The_Lich_King wrote:I think a soft cap at 500 would be good with a exponential cost of x1.5 the number of FEPs beyond 500. I.E to get from 500 to 501, would take you 501.5 FEPs, but to get from 699 to 700 would take 1000 FEPs. That would still reward people for playing more, but would mean that peoples stat growth would be substantially reduced after the soft cap.


FEP requirement already grows polynomially, and the effect of e.g. STR is reduced by the fourth-square. Changing this to exponential is asinine.


The percentage does not grow exponentially, it grows linearly and foods, plus food quality makes sure this growth always gets overshadowed.

Lets actually add exponential FEP growth so eventually FEP requirements will eclipse people's ability to meet them.
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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby The_Lich_King » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:04 pm

VDZ wrote:
telum12 wrote:
The_Lich_King wrote:I think a soft cap at 500 would be good with a exponential cost of x1.5 the number of FEPs beyond 500. I.E to get from 500 to 501, would take you 501.5 FEPs, but to get from 699 to 700 would take 1000 FEPs. That would still reward people for playing more, but would mean that peoples stat growth would be substantially reduced after the soft cap.


FEP requirement already grows polynomially, and the effect of e.g. STR is reduced by the fourth-square. Changing this to exponential is asinine.

Actually, while FEP requirement grows, the percentual increase keeps shrinking the further you get.
  • To gain a stat at 10 max stat costs you 10 FEPs.
  • To gain a stat when your highest is 20 costs you 20 FEPs, a 100% increase since you were at 10 stats.
  • At 30 stats, you need 30 FEPs to gain another stat, a 50% increase since you were at 20.
  • At 40 stats, you need 40 FEPs to gain another stat, a 34% increase since you were at 30.
  • At 500 stats, you need 500 FEPs to gain another stat, a 2% increase since you were at 490.
While the total amount of FEPs consumed to reach a certain level keeps increasing, the gaps between the stat gains keep getting closer and closer. In addition, there's also the variety bonus which is more likely to trigger more often as you have to consume more food, which even further reduces the gap between the 'levels'.

In most exponential experience systems, it takes far more experience to get from level 90 to level 100 than it does to get from level 1 to level 50. In Haven's FEP system, if one were to start at 1 stats (you start at 10 in practice, but let's start at 1 for the comparison) it would take 1274 total FEPs to get a stat to 50, but to get from 90 in a stat to 100 takes only 955 - significantly less. Going from 100 in a stat to 110 takes only 1055 - only 100 FEPs more than (or a 10.5% increase from) the previous set of 10.

Of course, there is a major compounding factor here, which is that this increase is applied to every stat you raise; you don't go from level 90 to level 100 once like in stand-still-and-bash-monsters MMORPGs, you repeat that process per stat. In practice, however, better players (not me) tend to focus on very specific stats at the expense of the other stats (see for example the 'Post your stats' thread, where most players have tons of STR, AGI and/or CON while often still having double-digit CHA, DEX and PSY). Only people who try to do everything on their main rather than making dedicated alts for everything get double-fucked by both requiring vastly more FEPs and getting fucked over harder by the hunger system (which is based purely on the amount of food consumed*, not your stats). But hey, at least I have more CHA, DEX and PSY than most of the people who can rape me with ease!
* Akshually, it's the combined hunger of consumed foods, but let's assume people eat efficiently and disregard 95+% of food items in-game as the current hunger system demands.


Exactly, the fact the FEO growth is linear, means that the distance between stats shrinks and the expanding FEP cost is easily covered by the new food and higher quality items that come with the stat increase. You never get eclipsed by FEP growth so there is no effective soft cap.
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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby SnuggleSnail » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:21 pm

If you want people to have low stats during an anvil spiraling world you either expect to have the best industry on the server or you're wrong
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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby The_Lich_King » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:22 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote:If you want people to have low stats during an anvil spiraling world you either expect to have the best industry on the server or you're wrong


I feel like you should just make a C&I post about spiraling considering you have brought it up like every other day since w14 has been announced.
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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby SnuggleSnail » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:28 pm

It's relevant in every single thread. When spiraling is in the game the entire game is spiraling.
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