Game Development: Darkwood Gilding

Announcements about major changes in Haven & Hearth.

Re: Game Development: Darkwood Gilding

Postby Reiber » Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:35 am

Zentetsuken wrote:
Lillejohn wrote:
jorb wrote:I want to play a fairly casual survival/gardening/walking simulator RPG


This is the least casual game I've ever played. You need to play 24/7 or have bots, unless you enjoy running around picking up months old left overs from other players.

I actually tried playing the new world, but quit because it was more work than play.


This is exactly what he enjoys. Jorb has never really played his own game even as effectively as a regular hermit. He has spoke endlessly about the joy he has just exploring abandoned villages and finding abandoned horses. He has never even engaged with like 80% of his own content.

I think this is the main problem.

Tons of people actually want to play a fairly casual survival/gardening/walking simulator RPG, but the devs have spent 10 years developing an entire disneyland themepark when all they really are interested in is the children's slide and swing set in the parking lot. The focus has been entirely too broad, there are dozens of areas in the Haven Themepark that are shallow and meaningless. The combat exhibit has just been on fire for years, the mining world rollercoaster derails and kills people on almost every loop, the food court has ten thousand restaurants but only 5 of them serve edible food and there is a cockroach infestation that has gone ignored for ages. The weirdest part is that instead of revisiting or improving or rebuilding the areas of the themepark that are barely functional they just spent a few years building the Ocean World Exhibition, a 100 kilometer square waterpark that has no slides or attractions, is just water for as far as the eye can see.

I would honestly love to see Haven as a fairly casual survival/gardening/walking simulator RPG where all effort goes in to exploring this concept. If animal AI wasn't a joke and there was no way to cheese animals and the difficulty and expanse of PvE was given some real thought and care I genuinely think it could mimic and surpass the excitement of stranger danger and offer real consequences to the game.

Bulldoze the areas of the themepark that are bad and start again.


all true, but you miss an important point. we`re the entertainers and employees of this themepark. jorbs walkinworld needs ruined citys, powerfull bandits, and angry and disgruntled, yet kind peasants , toiling in there tyranical lieges fields. if you play this game as he is. its easy, and immersive. for us its work. cause we are the npc´s .thats the parks main appeal, an lived in world, with sentient npc
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Re: Game Development: Darkwood Gilding

Postby Sephiron » Sat Oct 22, 2022 3:16 pm

Reiber wrote:all true, but you miss an important point. we`re the entertainers and employees of this themepark. jorbs walkinworld needs ruined citys, powerfull bandits, and angry and disgruntled, yet kind peasants , toiling in there tyranical lieges fields. if you play this game as he is. its easy, and immersive. for us its work. cause we are the npc´s .thats the parks main appeal, an lived in world, with sentient npc

The funniest thing about this cope is that you don't even have to play
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Re: Game Development: Darkwood Gilding

Postby wonder-ass » Sat Oct 22, 2022 3:37 pm

haven is actually really chill if u stop competing, there is always something to do everyday. the average player is trying too hard to compete with the tryhards that play 16 hours a day, its just not possible even if u had bots.
the games glaring issues become really apparent when u wanna try hard because the game wasn't designed around u doing x activity for 8 hours straight, and tbh it should never be designed that way either.
see homo sexuality trending,. do not do that.
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Re: Game Development: Darkwood Gilding

Postby Gacrux » Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:18 pm

Potjeh wrote:I don't think the combat system is just a problem in PvP though. The reason that a lot of people find the combat uninteresting is because there's a lack of variety. There's a reason most MMORPGs have discrete classes. Fighting tough mobs as a team where everyone has a specific role and success depends on every member coordinating well is great for socialization between players. So yeah, I'd like to see a combat system where you need to assemble a team with different specializations to go on a PvE "raid" like a mammoth hunt or a dungeon run.



This could also be tied to credos for specific classes, a bard whose combat deck is reducing openings and creating opening, make instruments (lute for example) could as blunt weapons so they can still defend themselves. Have bard skill be based on Lore, Charisma and psyche.

Archers could also have their own specialized deck allowing them to stun or reduce movement, increase penetration, range weapons could also count as blunt so they can defend themselves at close range. Have Archery based on Marksmanship, Perception and Dexterity.

Fighters Would essentially do the same as current they'd be balanced for creating openings/penetration/grievous damage Melee weapons would be piercing, edged, or blunt. Have Fighters based on Melee Combat, Strength and dexterity

Berserker could be an archetype of fighter that use blunt weapons (knuckles/claws/ect) and focus on grievous damage. Same as fighters for str and dex, but main stat would be unarmed.


I like the concept of having systems for different types of engagement for bigger game animals. Mammoths, orca/whales, ect I mean you could even have Trolls naturally spawn and have their own rules of engagement.

Also burrows could have mini bosses like the beaver dungeon enemies or ant dungeon or some other animals like bears ect.
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Re: Game Development: Darkwood Gilding

Postby Sephiron » Sat Oct 22, 2022 6:02 pm

wonder-ass wrote:haven is actually really chill if u stop competing, there is always something to do everyday. the average player is trying too hard to compete with the tryhards that play 16 hours a day, its just not possible even if u had bots.
the games glaring issues become really apparent when u wanna try hard because the game wasn't designed around u doing x activity for 8 hours straight, and tbh it should never be designed that way either.

This
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Re: Game Development: Darkwood Gilding

Postby Zentetsuken » Sat Oct 22, 2022 6:06 pm

> somebody who has played in major pvp factions for years talking about what the average player is doing wrong


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thanks bleh very cool
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Re: Game Development: Darkwood Gilding

Postby ItsFunToLose » Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:19 am

Gacrux wrote:
Potjeh wrote:I don't think the combat system is just a problem in PvP though. The reason that a lot of people find the combat uninteresting is because there's a lack of variety. There's a reason most MMORPGs have discrete classes. Fighting tough mobs as a team where everyone has a specific role and success depends on every member coordinating well is great for socialization between players. So yeah, I'd like to see a combat system where you need to assemble a team with different specializations to go on a PvE "raid" like a mammoth hunt or a dungeon run.



This could also be tied to credos for specific classes, a bard whose combat deck is reducing openings and creating opening, make instruments (lute for example) could as blunt weapons so they can still defend themselves. Have bard skill be based on Lore, Charisma and psyche.

Archers could also have their own specialized deck allowing them to stun or reduce movement, increase penetration, range weapons could also count as blunt so they can defend themselves at close range. Have Archery based on Marksmanship, Perception and Dexterity.

Fighters Would essentially do the same as current they'd be balanced for creating openings/penetration/grievous damage Melee weapons would be piercing, edged, or blunt. Have Fighters based on Melee Combat, Strength and dexterity

Berserker could be an archetype of fighter that use blunt weapons (knuckles/claws/ect) and focus on grievous damage. Same as fighters for str and dex, but main stat would be unarmed.


I like the concept of having systems for different types of engagement for bigger game animals. Mammoths, orca/whales, ect I mean you could even have Trolls naturally spawn and have their own rules of engagement.

Also burrows could have mini bosses like the beaver dungeon enemies or ant dungeon or some other animals like bears ect.


Having fully mastered classless combat, Jorb and Loftar should have no problem balancing multi-class combat systems, in mid-world stride. I doubt anything would possibly go wrong.
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Re: Game Development: Darkwood Gilding

Postby springyb » Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:26 am

telum12 wrote:Yea, unironically you can't punish criminals/outlaws anymore because the game was made completely safe for anyone who knows how to play the game:
- If you know how to run, you'll almost always escape
- If you don't escape, you can't die unless you seriously fuck up
- You are always completely safe within your walls. Sieging a real village was already impossibly difficult unless you had a major numbers advantage and a lot of time; now, with the 5x to duration, it's an absurd task and not even the most autistic player is going to spend that much effort sieging anyone


Now imagine you're some discord mod who knows this and still chooses to play the game as a competitive PvP game every year lmfao

Zentetsuken wrote:Therefore the most logical and reasonable solution is to remove PvP from the core game or leave it in its current state but make it optional while something is developed in the background.


Yeah, I'd even go as far to say that it's completely fine if PvP is bad. By Jorbs own post Haven isn't intended to be a PvP game. The core game isn't finished, so PvP really shouldn't be a priority.

They truly shouldn't listen to people who speedrun the content in order to try to force something out of this game that isn't there.
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Re: Game Development: Darkwood Gilding

Postby Gacrux » Sun Oct 23, 2022 4:43 am

ItsFunToLose wrote:Some stuff



Its not an immediate suggestion. And it'd add some variety for combat based on Potjeh's suggestion.

Ultimately, the post is a lot of non programmers/game developers complaining that the game isn't as PVP focused as they want. The current state encourages pvp factions to "salt" and otherwise harass casual players just because they can. This doesn't help with player retention and will continue to impact said retention to the same 200 players who will spiral quality for months without meaningful contention until the inevitable reset of the world just to do it again a couple months later.
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Re: Game Development: Darkwood Gilding

Postby wonder-ass » Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:08 am

Zentetsuken wrote:> somebody who has played in major pvp factions for years talking about what the average player is doing wrong


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thanks bleh very cool


ye and where do u think I started? entire legacy I was a hermit and majority of w10 I was a hermit. punching and ravens biting people way b4 i even knew how pvp worked.
see homo sexuality trending,. do not do that.
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