Bribed referee?

[IchBin]

Saying goes “You can choose the game, but you can’t change the rules”. But it’s only true if referee is not sleeping or taking bribes. This game and it’s community has more problems than they would like to admit.

But nice things first.

I was introduced to this game few months ago by accidentally watching short review of it. Now, in retrospective, remembering reviewer’s unadulterated excitement I understand that he was a little less noob than me. At first I was intrigued by the overall concept. When I started to play I was charmed by art style and atmosphere. Soon I felt a little overwhelmed by it’s mechanics, but overall it seemed fit so I proceeded to try to learn about them more. Passing by I found out about custom clients, but as far as it seemed to me, it made graphically appealing game into checkers, and my intention wasn't to play in “excel table”. Naively I thought that if it gave some feelable advantages developers would be banning it.

Then the day came, when my character, while outside the settlement, was cornered by two characters and… rowboat. Needless to say, that he didn't get out of it alive. Mechanics are mechanics – I don't mind them being exploited. But it was clear to me, that in area with reduced visibility because of trees and angle of native clients viewpoint it was quite impossible. Not saying I could be getting out of it alive, but it broke immersion quite a bit. But as decision not to use custom client was my choice I swallowed it.

But Pandora's box for me opened when I decided to read through forum posts from some “veteran/hardcore/competitive/etc...” players and watched explanatory video from one of like them…

Custom client was just a top of it. Starting from game changing monetization from developers which also resulted in players paying to other players with real money for letting they characters live and finishing with using bots and scripts as a given. Referee takes bribes and closes the eyes. Nice… and “very immersive”.

But the silliest in this situation, in my “humble noob opinion”, were complaints of not wiping game worlds frequently enough, because all the game content is kinda reachable in less than three months and it becomes boring. I would guess it isn't possible without third party programs which, let’s be honest, is nothing less than cheating. So you literally are asking developers to adjust game mechanics because players like you aren't capable to play by the rules? It reminds me of kindergarten situation where kids decide to play a game and then changes the rules on a fly until everybody are annoyed and bored and nobody plays anymore. And then the same players complain of lack of enough other players. Funny little people…

Setting aside that to some extent there is clear developers fault encouraging such behavior, let me finish with citation from classics:

“Persist in the doomed world you have created”.

[Dawidio123]

Well it was nice coming back every few days to read all this. Haven and Hearth has lost another active player due to seeing the same pvp clique telling everyone to learn pvp. Don't take me the wrong way, you guys have something great going on here. It is just unfortunate echo chamber of the toxic pvp crowd here on Haven and Hearth. At the end of the day I am at least glad this happened before I donated the $100 I put aside to support this project. Oh well sh*t happens and life is not fair, piss and shit into Jorb and loftars DM's on Haven and Hearth and thanks for the cheese, catch ya later.

[axus]

I've been murdered a few times and never paid the troll toll. There's nothing incorrect in this synopsis but also no suggestions for improvement.

[IchBin]

I've been murdered a few times and never paid the troll toll. There's nothing incorrect in this synopsis but also no suggestions for improvement.

I don’t think that as a noob I would have privilege for serious suggestions, but the obvious few I would be suggesting is to ban bots and probably custom clients and abandon “donation dump” (or “pay to win” if you preffer) politic. It has been proven that people are willing to support developers voluntarily if their product seems enjoyable. I don’t think there must be radical changes in players interaction mechanics, pvp included, just make sure that gravity law works for everyone equally and then let the dedication or patience decide.

P.S. There is so many potential mechanics to implement. For example mentioned forest terrain. It would be logical that characters with relevant skill would be capable to orient in it better, so why not to make trees more translucent to them than it is to character without this skill. But of course, if custom client reduces trees to coloured spots on grid it’s pointless.

[JohnBender]

His "suggestion" is for devs to police their game, his points are on point.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

His "suggestion" is for devs to police their game, his points are on point.

Custom clients are more or less UI addons, some more powerful than others. Some games allow this, others don't.
Bots are basically universally banned in other games, but they are explicitly allowed in Haven, with the goal to design the game in such a way that bots aren't necessary for advancement and don't give much advantage. (They've done a decent job at this since 2015, with the exception of high value animal spawns, cheese/agriculture, and spotter alt bots.)

You'll find that most things are not against the rules.

[IchBin]

Custom clients are more or less UI addons, some more powerful than others. Some games allow this, others don't.
Bots are basically universally banned in other games, but they are explicitly allowed in Haven, with the goal to design the game in such a way that bots aren't necessary for advancement and don't give much advantage. (They've done a decent job at this since 2015, with the exception of high value animal spawns, cheese/agriculture, and spotter alt bots.)

You'll find that most things are not against the rules.

It’s ok if you don’t mind things that in other games is considered as unwanted and even unacceptable. But don't act surprised if your sandbox becomes empty and new kids don’t come to play.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

It’s ok if you don’t mind things that in other games is considered as unwanted and even unacceptable. But don't act surprised if your sandbox becomes empty and new kids don’t come to play.

That's a fair point. I'm also opposed to botting in general, and I think the rule should be that they are disallowed, even if rarely or ineffectually enforced, because it'd probably result in more people playing the game as there would be a general consensus that the rules at least outlaw those who bot for an unfair advantage.
But I choose to support the game even though I'd prefer a different rule on that point. Such is life. I don't blame you for quitting after hearing the rules differ.

[Dawidio123]

They've done a decent job at this since 2015

Lol, lmao even.

[DonVelD]

Saying goes “You can choose the game, but you can’t change the rules”. But it’s only true if referee is not sleeping or taking bribes. This game and it’s community has more problems than they would like to admit.

But nice things first.

I was introduced to this game few months ago by accidentally watching short review of it. Now, in retrospective, remembering reviewer’s unadulterated excitement I understand that he was a little less noob than me. At first I was intrigued by the overall concept. When I started to play I was charmed by art style and atmosphere. Soon I felt a little overwhelmed by it’s mechanics, but overall it seemed fit so I proceeded to try to learn about them more. Passing by I found out about custom clients, but as far as it seemed to me, it made graphically appealing game into checkers, and my intention wasn't to play in “excel table”. Naively I thought that if it gave some feelable advantages developers would be banning it.

Then the day came, when my character, while outside the settlement, was cornered by two characters and… rowboat. Needless to say, that he didn't get out of it alive. Mechanics are mechanics – I don't mind them being exploited. But it was clear to me, that in area with reduced visibility because of trees and angle of native clients viewpoint it was quite impossible. Not saying I could be getting out of it alive, but it broke immersion quite a bit. But as decision not to use custom client was my choice I swallowed it.

But Pandora's box for me opened when I decided to read through forum posts from some “veteran/hardcore/competitive/etc...” players and watched explanatory video from one of like them…

Custom client was just a top of it. Starting from game changing monetization from developers which also resulted in players paying to other players with real money for letting they characters live and finishing with using bots and scripts as a given. Referee takes bribes and closes the eyes. Nice… and “very immersive”.

But the silliest in this situation, in my “humble noob opinion”, were complaints of not wiping game worlds frequently enough, because all the game content is kinda reachable in less than three months and it becomes boring. I would guess it isn't possible without third party programs which, let’s be honest, is nothing less than cheating. So you literally are asking developers to adjust game mechanics because players like you aren't capable to play by the rules? It reminds me of kindergarten situation where kids decide to play a game and then changes the rules on a fly until everybody are annoyed and bored and nobody plays anymore. And then the same players complain of lack of enough other players. Funny little people…

Setting aside that to some extent there is clear developers fault encouraging such behavior, let me finish with citation from classics:

“Persist in the doomed world you have created”.

Custom clients and bots make the game convenient & less chore'y. That's what the devs should strive for.