Nature of Mysterious Benefactor

[Ysh]

I approve of this thread.

I am glad for this blessing, Little B. But you know to torment me without shedding some of your light onto my topic.

[MagicManICT]

Since jorb mentioned his work with Paradox in the past, he has used a different forum name there, but it eludes me as to what it is at the moment.... maybe he'll be kind and share it.

[Kaios]

Since jorb mentioned his work with Paradox in the past, he has used a different forum name there, but it eludes me as to what it is at the moment.... maybe he'll be kind and share it.

Brother Bean

[Mafious]

paradox ? like in crusader kings II paradox ?


jorb send some secrets this way!

[Ysh]

Updated original posting with these contribution. Thanks much to moderator team members Kaios and MagicManICT. You risk yourselves to get close to these mysterious men, as is known ''man who stares into this mystery will have this mystery staring into him.'' Do not lose yourself to get this moment, you own it and must never let this one leave.

[vatas]

paradox ? like in crusader kings II paradox ?


jorb send some secrets this way!

Jorb did in fact work with that Paradox. They were going to publish Salem but decided not to when beta draggen on and on, leaving Jorb and Loftar develop the game with just two of them until Mortal Moments purchased Salem.

[Kaios]

Jorb did in fact work with that Paradox. They were going to publish Salem but decided not to when beta draggen on and on, leaving Jorb and Loftar develop the game with just two of them until Mortal Moments purchased Salem.

What I don't understand though is why was development taking so long if they had some Paradox employees at their disposal?

If I recall correctly the game was announced back in 2011 by Paradox and Seatribe together but as far as I know the bulk of the game had been developed by jorb & loftar themselves over the course of a couple of years (in which they severely neglected Haven). After the two or so years and despite decent development progress and reasonable profits for a two-man team, Paradox decided to pull out anyways because "lol eternal alpha."

Of course them pulling out didn't mean they weren't still making some money as it turned in to a profit sharing scenario where Paradox still maintained the cash shop and server(s) but didn't provide any further development assistance, which I have a hard time believing they provided in any real capacity in the first place.

Personally I think the simple fact was that this type of game is and will always be a niche game, permadeath games are already disliked due to their very nature notwithstanding any endless grind scenarios.

[MagicManICT]

jorb pointed out he had done a bit of work on EU series in the "other games" thread. (Probably part of what got Ysh to post this thread?) This was before Salem. No idea if any of them were "credited" roles. Seems like he or loftar one had mentioned doing some level work on another game for Paradox, but I don't recall where i read that, which one mentioned it, and which game it was.

[Ysh]

Jorb did in fact work with that Paradox. They were going to publish Salem but decided not to when beta draggen on and on, leaving Jorb and Loftar develop the game with just two of them until Mortal Moments purchased Salem.

What I don't understand though is why was development taking so long if they had some Paradox employees at their disposal?

If I recall correctly the game was announced back in 2011 by Paradox and Seatribe together but as far as I know the bulk of the game had been developed by jorb & loftar themselves over the course of a couple of years (in which they severely neglected Haven). After the two or so years and despite decent development progress and reasonable profits for a two-man team, Paradox decided to pull out anyways because "lol eternal alpha."

Of course them pulling out didn't mean they weren't still making some money because it turned in to a profit sharing scenario where Paradox still maintained the cash shop and server(s) but didn't provide any further development assistance, which I have a hard time believing they provided in any real capacity in the first place.

Personally I think the simple fact was that this type of game is and will always be a niche game, permadeath games are already disliked due to their very nature notwithstanding any endless grind scenarios.

These benefactors I think can care a lot for this game project they work on. This must be, for loftar and jorb to do workings on it for many years without any payment reward. They do it for the love of their project, this game, their baby. I do not know how much money they can be making right now from it (I hope it will be enough for continuation, naturally), but I can only assume they will not be living large on this wage. I also believe them to not yet try to milk or exploit this playerbase of their monies. It is seeming to me that this will all point to situation where these masters of time and space care more for game integrity than for profits. I think we all can hope that Big Tolf and Little B will never ''sell out.''

This can be problem for business men though. Business men will care only for the profits. When I go to university, I have do some close workings with department for entrepreneurship at this university. Many lessons include such ideas ''infanticide is not sinful'' -- do not fear abandoning the ideas which do not work. Fail fast and fail often. Do not get stuck in marriage to your own idea and waste time with it. The goal is to throw many yolks to see which will stick to the wall. I can imagine these ideas which work on starting up company will still apply to the establishment company.

But this is no good for Brother Bean and The Butcher, men who make a business to make their game, instead of making a game to make their business. Paradox has goal of business, not goal of game. There is clear conflict of interest for these. If development time will drag on or if Freddy and Joey do not wish to yield game integrity for more profits (i.e. remove the niche aspects of game to make it bad for current players), I can see this Paradox company choosing to go to other projects.

[jorb]

What I don't understand though is why was development taking so long if they had some Paradox employees at their disposal?

We didn't, though. We had graphics work outsourced to various places but that was that. We built the game.