Spear Hunting for Dummies

[jordancoles]

Yes, you guys are right and I didn't mean to imply that the flee mechanics should change without some thought towards combat too. However, I think a large reason as to why many are so hesitant to take on animals straight up is a by-product of how damage and openings work. A good set of armour used to negate a majority of the damage you'd take while it lasted. Now though because of the way the current combat system works in relation to openings if you attempt to fight an animal without some form of cheese method or kiting then you are pretty much guaranteed to take damage from everything.

Adding the wound system to that, making animals more dangerous (such as murderous moose), all tend to contribute to that mentality of avoiding a straight up fight.

Armor durability and armor penetration are two reasons why even an established character that can face tank mobs is always better off just cheesing them to death. Why waste durability and take on some small wounds when you can just kill things safely like you used to when armor was more useful.

Another thing to consider is that I was hit to 11hhp yesterday after starting the encounter at 100% with no wounds. If you have any wounds at all at any time on your character you could easily be killed. It's better to avoid damage and durability loss whenever you can and the current combat/armor system pushes you towards cheese every time

edit: armor penetration is sort of bullshit in itself actually. It's the reason why ant dungeons are more annoying/dangerous than beaver dungeons since ants are one of the few mobs with insane armor penetration even at really low %s while in a full suit of armor

[VDZ]

Imagine if the only way to kill a boar would be up in its face 1v1.

This is totally doable (unless you mean not moving at all), especially on a horse. Hit the boar, run away while reducing your openings, hit boar, run away, repeat until boar is dead. I killed a boar this way yesterday, without any armor.

Armor durability and armor penetration are two reasons why even an established character that can face tank mobs is always better off just cheesing them to death. Why waste durability and take on some small wounds when you can just kill things safely like you used to when armor was more useful.

Armor durability does indeed lead to counterintuitive gameplay. I specifically unequip my Bat Wing right before entering combat as I don't want to run the risk of it getting wrecked. The fact that it has armor feels more like a detriment than a benefit to me. (Armor durability does work well for cheaper items like shields. But anything of value I'd rather keep intact than spend to prevent some damage.)

[springyb]

Some animals in this game are literally unkillable without being able to reagro btw

The whole fleeing mechanic in general is really bad. Animals should not flee at sprint speed, and they should not flee forever. Idk if the devs have even actually tried to chase down an animal but if you keep them on screen and run behind they will never stop running if peace moded. At the very least they should run slower while fleeing, and stop after a map grid or so

They don't flee forever. They either bleed to death or get far enough away from you and stop. You're intended to follow the blood trail and reaggo them, to which they will fight to the death. The best way I've found is to use UA to fight until they flee and then use an arrow to finish them off, or use MC and chop/cleave to outright kill them before they run. Or just use a horse. Either way it doesn't work 100% of the time and it definitely is frustrating. Whether other players think it's fun or not is another point but it is doable with reliable success.

The devs lose the fight against boat hunters every world and their efforts honestly have made it harder to fight animals normally, which pushes more people into exploiting them. For years I'd wanted them to flat out disable combat with animals while you're inside a boat and balance from there, but then they added in animals that swim and require boats so who the fuck knows now.

Imagine if the only way to kill a boar would be up in its face 1v1.

This is literally how you tame boars. You're doing something wrong if boars are your example.

[Jackwolf]

They don't flee forever. They either bleed to death or get far enough away from you and stop. You're intended to follow the blood trail and reaggo them, to which they will fight to the death. The best way I've found is to use UA to fight until they flee and then use an arrow to finish them off, or use MC and chop/cleave to outright kill them before they run. Or just use a horse. Either way it doesn't work 100% of the time and it definitely is frustrating. Whether other players think it's fun or not is another point but it is doable with reliable success..

They do flee forever if you can even vaguely keep up with them. If you go the opposite way and break combat they stop after a minimap, and if you reaggro them they generally continue running unless they are something with some moderate fighting capability. Though even a lynx, when dropped to 20% health, will run endlessly if you try to chase and reaggro it.

Arrows seem like a decent idea, but the game is already hindered by spreading yourself thin points wise - no one wants to be required to be able to fight in CC and with a bow.

[springyb]

They do flee forever if you can even vaguely keep up with them. If you go the opposite way and break combat they stop after a minimap, and if you reaggro them they generally continue running unless they are something with some moderate fighting capability. Though even a lynx, when dropped to 20% health, will run endlessly if you try to chase and reaggro it.

Arrows seem like a decent idea, but the game is already hindered by spreading yourself thin points wise - no one wants to be required to be able to fight in CC and with a bow.

They literally cannot "flee forever", they bleed and die. If an animal is fleeing from you because it's low HP, you've already won, you just need to follow it.

If it's not bleeding to death it's likely because you're triggering it's anti exploit mechanics. The repeated fleeing the moose is doing in the video is not the same as when they are low HP.

Arrows seem like a decent idea, but the game is already hindered by spreading yourself thin points wise - no one wants to be required to be able to fight in CC and with a bow.

Use MC then. It's honestly much easier and it lets you bypass the whole "tracking the animal down" minigame.

Also understand that it might take more than two weeks into a world before you can consider bears and moose loot pinatas.

[Agrik]

Simple method is to make animals flee slower if they are injured

Shouldn't players also run slower when injured, then?

( so you can run and catch them).

AFAIK, human is endurance hunter, not sprinter.

Because otherwise people just find exploits for eternity to stop them from running away too fast

People would always find exploits if the reward isn't given for free (or almost for free), but that's not a reason to make games too simple. Some "exploits" would be reasonable ways to solve the game challenge.

(animals should run away for a short, short bit and then stop, so you can shoot them again) Historically bows and spears were

If you talk about "historically", animals usually run until they think they got away and hid good enough, not "for a short bit". And, as I remember, at least some in-game ones behave so, they run away "off the screen" so they aren't in plain sight, and then stop. Then you can catch up with them and shoot again.

Some animals in this game are literally unkillable without being able to reagro btw

It doesn't mean that the proper way to deal with it is to keep the re-agro bug.

Animals should not flee at sprint speed,

is there any reason for a hunted animal to act so?

but if you keep them on screen and run behind they will never stop running if peace moded.

Maybe they don't believe your "peace mode" when you too obviously fake it to actually kill them?

and stop after a map grid or so

That is 100 meters, right?

But at least from boats, because all kinds of boat - to ground- combat is just outright retarded idea.

For years I'd wanted them to flat out disable combat with animals while you're inside a boat and balance from there, but then they added in animals that swim and require boats so who the fuck knows now.

Maybe:
- When fighting from smaller boats, you should have a risk to lose your balance and overturn the boat (not sure if it is the right term)? Like, you get such risk when you use combat actions or when you're attacked by an animal. Maybe even when attacked by any opponent which is not in a boat. Of course, boarding back should take a (small) bit of time.
- Larger animals should be able to seriously damage larger boats?
I'm not convinced, but fox hunting from a knarr doesn't seem to be a very unbalanced thing.

[Kaios]

They literally cannot "flee forever", they bleed and die. If an animal is fleeing from you because it's low HP, you've already won, you just need to follow it.

If it's not bleeding to death it's likely because you're triggering it's anti exploit mechanics. The repeated fleeing the moose is doing in the video is not the same as when they are low HP.

That's true but I don't think it is certain that they will bleed to death, if I recall correctly the wording used was that it may happen. It's also not a guarantee that you will see the blood trails as that is based on your perception and exploration, I think.

What are the anti-exploit mechanics, precisely? It is my understanding that the reason for doing smaller chip damage rather than going straight for something like a cleave is due to the fact that when you hit an animal with the stronger attacks you are more likely to trigger whatever arbitrary damage threshold they have that causes them to run away. Not necessarily because they are at low health, though that is also one of the reasons. It seems counter-intuitive to me that the play is to build up opening and use weaker attacks rather than going for the deadly blows.

[mamotromico]

That's true but I don't think it is certain that they will bleed to death, if I recall correctly the wording used was that it may happen. It's also not a guarantee that you will see the blood trails as that is based on your perception and exploration, I think.

Unless something changed drastically in the past world, they always die from bleeding. I've hunted some bears like that back in W11 just a couple days into the world

[Ignurof]

Great video showcasing the problems with hunting right now.

[ogey]

This is literally how you tame boars. You're doing something wrong if boars are your example.

This is probably only helpful to lowly sprucecaps but I always pincushion my animals from a boat first before I move in to punch them.