Kingdoms

[Archiplex]

Attaching kingdom gain to LP gain (Or even village authority/claim authority gain) isn't a viable idea because of how abuseably easy it is to grind authority/lp.

EXP gain, more or less, requires a person to be active. And so far (Probably from laziness) I haven't seen any bots to abuse the system yet (Which it can totally be done.)

The entire concept of this idea hinges on Kingdom Authority income and costs being finely tuned and balanced- in order for that to happen there needs to be a better source of income. For now, it's okay to use EXP- but it certainly can't stay that way forever.

I still feel like the EXP system in general is only a band-aid fix to the greater arcing issue.

[hazzor]

to be honest I'm struggling to understand this properly, but I'm pretty sure I don't like the sound of it... I think it'd be a weird direction to take things, but I'm sure jorbtar will do what they see fit, whether the plebs like it or not

[bmjclark]

EXP gain, more or less, requires a person to be active. And so far (Probably from laziness) I haven't seen any bots to abuse the system yet (Which it can totally be done.)

To be fair, a large part of the reason experiences aren't widely botted is because they really aren't restrictive enough to matter. Even my alts get enough experiences because of the bonuses you seem to get for not doing anything for a few days to keep chain studying curios. I'd rather see experiences removed then used as an authority booster.

[ArvinJA]

What I'd do: Have a Kingdom at spot A, have a secret top tier industry area at spot B, when people come to raid spot A using the new siege mechanics I'd alt vault everything. If I thought I could win in a fight, I'd fight, if not, I'd move all the chars over to some other location. The attackers wouldn't gain anything, and wouldn't destroy anything truly valuable.

If kingdoms gave buffs to industry within the kingdom, and other high-end benefits I might be forced to have industry at the actual location of the kingdom, would still alt vault all the valuables, so wars would mostly be for other factions to come and destoy my industry. Basically there needs to be a lot of incentives to keep everything within a kingdom and to not alt vault anything, and I doubt there can be any good incentives for the latter.

[DaniAngione]

What I'd do: Have a Kingdom at spot A, have a secret top tier industry area at spot B, when people come to raid spot A using the new siege mechanics I'd alt vault everything. If I thought I could win in a fight, I'd fight, if not, I'd move all the chars over to some other location. The attackers wouldn't gain anything, and wouldn't destroy anything truly valuable.

If kingdoms gave buffs to industry within the kingdom, and other high-end benefits I might be forced to have industry at the actual location of the kingdom, would still alt vault all the valuables, so wars would mostly be for other factions to come and destoy my industry. Basically there needs to be a lot of incentives to keep everything within a kingdom and to not alt vault anything, and I doubt there can be any good incentives for the latter.

Unless Kingdoms have some kind of special building that act like a hoard and symbolizes the value of the Kingdom... just like we used bars of gold to represent the value of currency in the real world.

The value of a kingdom should be somehow connected to its power/authority. To increase the kingdom, you must increase its value (store more valuables/riches on that building). If you try to alt-vault it all, you'll strike your own kingdom by suddenly decreasing its authority to the point it will lose most of its territory... So the valuables must stay there to keep the value of the Kingdom up.

[Kaios]

It's too bad a butthurt individual revealed this idea before it had a more concrete foundation, from the way I read jorb's post it might not even be a thing it is purely speculation.

[Sevenless]

It's too bad a butthurt individual revealed this idea before it had a more concrete foundation, from the way I read jorb's post it might not even be a thing it is purely speculation.

I agree it could have done with more spitshine before being revealed to the masses.

Overall I still love the idea. It's a massive change in how haven politics would arrange, but frankly good. Making small towns and noobs into resources to be fought over rather than playthings to exterminate will be great for the longevity of this game.

Potjeh at one point pointed out that exterminating enemy vassals might be a viable way to play. This in part is why I think the no crime without war is important. Harassing raids to kill vassals defeat the purpose of this.

[venatorvenator]

The no crime thing is actually incredibly exploitable in terms of being the attacker and being the defender
I don't think I want to explain why here though lol, but it's one of the major things that we are trying to work around atm

What if it's abandoned entirely and replaced by a stricter "crime against the crown" debuff, for example a 24x longer red-handed mark and HHP damage for criminal acts?



On the XP, botting, and forced annexation matter, kingdom authority could be fueled instead by donation of fate or rare non-craftable curios, right-clicked on any of the territory banners and statues to refill some amount of it. This would mean that vassals would have to be active to find these curios by foraging, harvesting, sawing wood, or they would have to trade with someone else. Scaled according to rarity, so worm apples refill less than floatsams and so on.

This mechanic also means that vassals like hermits would have the option to willingly contribute to the kingdom's maintenance or downfall instead of being simply a passive resource. Every vassal would have to donate something regularly to keep the royal claims up, and rebellious or wronged vassals could refuse to do that and keep the limited fate curios to themselves (which is then in line with the devs' view on pvp and " the air is free" principle). This would solve a lot of the freedom thing many seem to have a problem with, and also minimize botting.

[Kaios]

1. If I'm vassalized against my will, how do I rebel? A lot of the mechanics like this don't seem to have been thought about.

I believe and hopefully some dev will correct me if I am wrong but being vassalized (with or without your consent) makes you a subject of that Kingdom, meaning you can commit crimes on the claim. So if you don't like being vassalized you can do something more easily about it than any non-subject of that Kingdom or even help non-subjects against them.

[Grable]

Love the idea. Sure there needs to be some tunning but I simply love this idea.