Where did everybody go? Server count down

[Robben_DuMarsch]

It's a mantle shared by a number of people who have been lobbying Jorb for a host of changes that have actively killed entry of new, casual, and semi-casual players into endgame activities. Snail is certainly one of them.

Many of them - in recent days - have been airing their grievances at the world (and especially the PVP scene) being dead. It's pretty funny to see them reap what they've sown.

[sMartins]

It's a story as old as time.

[SnuggleSnail]

Eh, I'm tempted to be like "it's complicated. Nobody who's saying it's this one obvious thing should be trusted", but that's giving your rhetoric way too much credit.

I can't think of a single mechanic that's less new player friendly/more complicated than world 10.

• Grinding a character is easier to the extent it's not even comparable.
• Grinding quality is easier to the extent it's not even comparable.
• Snekkja quality doesn't matter anymore.
• You can't die without Mrage anymore.
• Even if you somehow manage it dying doesn't matter.
• There are guides for combat now.

I've noticed a lot more old people stop playing/stop PVPing as opposed to less newer people joining. Haven PVP doesn't feel risky or exciting anymore, it's mostly just tedious and meaningless.

• No siege, they're not even stopping people from making literally unraidable vaults anymore.
• No death, not even rarely like before.
• Tracking is obscenely autistic now due to lack of travel + everybody being on a snekkja.
• Conservative estimate, it takes multiple people 10+hours of effort to make one fight between people who want to fight happen.
• Even if you win hard, the other guy doesn't rly care beyond ego.
• Tracking is obscenely autistic now because of bad fast travel + ubiquitous of snekkjas + oceans + stealth buff.

Even if you were getting more people's foot through the door, not many people would be interested in staying. You basically have to work from home or be NEET to make PVP happen, and when you finally do make it happen it's pretty inconsequential. As per usual, this video is about the most relevant criticism of modern haven PVP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PZJhhZoJPE

Also big shoutout to the GPU crash that has been affecting all clients for maybe 5 years now, and winter making PVP unplayable 1/7th of the time for absolutely no reason.

My village has 4-8 fighters depending on how high your standard is, and like 6 of them aren't playing this world by day 8. It's VERY OBVIOUS just based on village locations+fast travel changes+the map being bad that this is another world 11. It's not even some debby downer low morale shit, I wanna play, but there's no point. Spending literal hundreds of hours for probably <10 inconsequential fights all world is just silly. If this shit is too autistic for me, empress of the autists, it's too autistic for normal people.

P.S: the last PVP content update was in 2018 or 2019

[Robben_DuMarsch]

It's no wonder nobody takes you seriously anymore.
It was little over a year ago that people were spamming about my unwashed horde of nabs spamming SoS and mass spamming bow, and you were raging about "safe pali" abuse.
Now, you want to argue that nothing has changed.

Yes, a lot has changed. What role does a player who isn't a sweaty no-life PVP nerd have anymore in PVP?
Although this was but a short time ago, we are a far cry from when it made any sense to do this:
https://youtu.be/IK0708S3PS4?si=fzyawwe4v7Epzi1A3

There's one valid way to play, now:
Step 1 - Click Kritters
Step 2 - KITO, Opp Knocks, Cleave the enemy that is worst at running, while you can freely disengage.
Step 3 - Jack off on the keyboard until you crash your PC and die.

You made your bed, sleep in it buddy. Enjoy the lack of PvP content. I'm beyond caring about asking Jorb to fix it. There's still plenty to this game I enjoy, and unlike you, I am playing it happily.

[Dawidio123]

ragebait lmao, you got my one button pvp removed you ruined pvp for yourself type shiii

also world ded because the only thing that changed is that you now have less time to do everything and after week 1 who really gives a shit beyond slight qol about leather being slightly faster, on the other hand stuff like mining song or fishing song are shorter so enjoy, btw you use more curio so i hope you make that xp last Oh and animals eat a lot more swill, it's okay just harvest the field more often, you can't make that shit up.

[SnuggleSnail]

Man, that shit's so silly. KITO/cleave or sting decks are not hard to learn at a basic level. 2-3 hours in valhalla and somebody could be "good enough".

I struggle to imagine the person who's willing to put in the effort to regularly spend 10 hours to MAYBE but probably not get a fight over&over&over for years, but is also unwilling to learn basic combat one time.

And even if they did exist... A combat system with literally 0 depth would not keep people around for rare and inconsequential fights. Most fighters quit interesting events are too infrequent. It's not ambiguous.

[Rebs]

I don't think pvp is why everyone has gone, barely anyone turned up thats the real issue.
And people then left once they realised speed change is cringe.

I do think haven needs a big pvp focused update for sure, I think pvp should be a primary activity in haven and I do believe this is the most fun you can have in haven, people don't stick around for PvE grind unless its for pvp reasons and right now raiding is impossible really to even think about, we should be living in a world where everyone is planning a raid at the weekends and not just thinking about "Oh I don't have B12 so its gg no pvp for me". Also this Gate change is really good for newbies but feels kinda bad for those who were on the edge. I met loads of new players who were fighting eachother W15/16 and no now rage isn't just a "oh ill pick this up because I got the LP and it might be fun to fight someone who I see who I out gear" but not everyone has to have rage alts instead. because they don't want their main not to have the ability to run into their pali. This single change pushes people away from PvP even more. when we should be doing the opposite and encouraging it (easier said the done I know) but Yeah no new player is getting rage now and that means unless they point effort into making a rage alt is gonna try raiding or fight anyone which again is a lot of fun. There may be people who avoid it and are super nice to everyone but the thrill of the life/death situations, losing your stuff is gonna be 100x more dopamine then milking your cows.


TLDR: PvP == big fun, W16.1 makes rage a negative instead of a positive == bad, means less people willing to have fun pvping randoms, means more people bored milking cows instead. But milk == cheese == strong fighter == better at pvp == fun, not that no happen.

[jock]

People don't pvp cause it has zero value.

Most shit that is useful about it is exploited or botted to the point pf alienation.

Its easy to fix, but the guys who need to feel big would never like it.

Its that simple.

At this point the game needs a major pvp system overhual to fix shit, like removing ua/mc scaling from pvp beyond 10% diff, and stat caps per mine floor. Just to level the playing field.

[SnuggleSnail]

there are literally people in the game that probably want to fight me rn that aren't fighting me because it's too much effort to be in proximity to each other

https://youtu.be/IK0708S3PS4?si=fzyawwe4v7Epzi1A3

also look at this cool event everywhere will rmbr forever and only happened because teleportation was easy, siege was at least theoretically possible, and we were in close enough proximity to each other to be annoyed enough to start shit

[MightySheep]

imo whats wrong iwth haven pvp is all just psychological. Im bored of pretending otherwise.

We just 2v5 robben/edgevile with half ql sword and not very different stats because of reasons I honestly cant comprehend. Its a very simple system. Theres 4 colors and you you attack/defend a corresponding color. Yet this edgeville group just sat stationary in a wagon, failing to click the defend or attack buttons properly. Sure we could go to a single button pvp like SoS but how can you even call that a game at that point? What is the skill expression then? You all just spam the same button lol what. Is that fun? How? Why does 3 attacks need to be dumbed to 1 attack? Why are people asking me to pretend this combat system is too complicated.

Fake news have mentally crippled Majority of haven playerbase. People unironically think they cant compete with "exploit" "bot" etc and that its somehow difficult to stay in the 2x UA/MC radius. Most of us have play arc or ashes more than haven this world. Its like a couple of hours a day gameplay. Im honestly willing to bet that edgeville players have more game time this world than we do. They too mentally defeated to spend 5 minutes figuring out how to click button correctly that a toddler can figure out so they get KOd. Without fake news maybe you would see more engagement. However I admit most ppl just want to pve, barely anybody want to pvp. Thats different from this absolute bs that its not possible to pvp though. You guys are just really bad at video games.