Some thoughts on Player Count

[KrankMistkerl]

[dafels]

Well, it's super fun to bash roads and rebuild one's own roads. Top end-game mechanics. Keeps people logged into the game for extended periods too!

http://i.imgur.com/Xy7DGfY.jpg
Super fun! Just caught one enjoying the top end-game mechanics today.

[venatorvenator]

We need to get rid of infinite character progression, it's why virtually nobody bothers joining a world older than a month or so, and why casuals like me drop out when they fall too far behind. This grind competition where you have to log in every day and schedule your day according to the game is just no good for people with actual lives.

This will fix literally nothing and would make the player base even less. The entire "end-game" of Haven relies on the infinite progression. If you put some sort of cap you might have more players willing to join later into a world, but you'll also have a bunch of players quit because there is nothing to do when they are caped out.

You can't have both a permanent world and infinite progression, and you can't let pvp be this trivial and expect that not to ruin the social aspect of the game. But devs are too stubborn to change any of that.

The concept of unlimited stats only works if characters grow old and start losing them at some point, or if those skills are acquired slowly. If there's no way to cycle through characters as you progress we'll always reach a point where effort outstrips fun, and then we'll not be motivated to keep playing. Infinite progression without skill and quality decay is unsustainable.

Much could be solved if devs actually promoted their game. That would reduce playerbase drop and also allow them to ignore veterans when they whine in different variations of this

it should be like the old world more.

That's an actual quote.


My opinion is that they should change the game completely, let those annoyed by that quit, and refresh the community with people interested in the new mechanics instead.

Meanwhile, EU IV has been quite fun.

[vatas]

Well, it's super fun to bash roads and rebuild one's own roads. Top end-game mechanics. Keeps people logged into the game for extended periods too!

http://i.imgur.com/Xy7DGfY.jpg
Super fun! Just caught one enjoying the top end-game mechanics today.

Since I'm already paid for building that trail I don't really have reason to get upset, but I can't say I enjoy seeing that.

[simimi]

You can't have both a permanent world and infinite progression

Its possible with enough diminushing return ( sort of Achilles and the Tortoise ).
If we can get enough branchs of specialisation you can train a skill/stat to the point that it dont worth to improve more for you, and train another branch, making the game lasting longer.

[Tamalak]

The game already has serious diminishing returns. Leveling a stat becomes linearly more difficult and the effectiveness of each stat point is less than the previous one.

[MagicManICT]

You have an increase in cost per point, both in material goods and the time it takes to source those goods. Of course, higher quality goods decreases the number needed and thus time. You have a decrease in advantage another point gives. I think I figured it up at one point to be something like a thousandth of a percent at 1000 UC (might not be that small of a gain, but it's a small fraction of a percent). Thus skills and stats have a double-dip diminishing return.

For quality of items, you have fixed sources that are generated with the world, secondary products from those can be spiraled up over time. Farming goods (animals, trees, silk, crops, and the prodcuts from them) have a stable progression over time of Xq/day as long as effort is put in each day.

I see a lot of complaints by people playing hermits about "keeping up," when in fact, they have never kept up unless they were heavy traders (in which case, you're not really a hermit, but an independent contractor for whichever villages you're trading with). In the case of hermits, they tend to go with the flow. They quit when they get bored or raided. Most changes in progression aren't going to affect them unless it makes the game harder to play, in which case they're likely to get bored faster in a game that, currently, has a fast burn out time.

Another thing that could slow progression down is increasing costs of skills and knowledges, but is that going to encourage anyone to stick around longer, or will they quit out of boredom or frustration?

[Tamalak]

I think one issue that has sped up progression is the way food scales. In the old game, q40 food is twice as good as q10. Now, q40 food is four times better than q10.. because you get double the FEP at half the cost. The formulas should probably be revamped so the total benefit is 2x.

[Bruthol]

A lot of people who play this game do so for the competitive portion of. Competition in different quality grinds, competition in trading, competition in PvP. Its natural for these players therefore to try and progress through the game as quickly as possible. Fuck us for wanting there to be more to do after 4 months and getting bored when there isn't.

If your goal is as basic as grinding Q, then you may consider H&H like a good book. you can rush through it, reading it diagonally, skipping entire lines.
But then when you reach the end, book over, you'll feel this particular melancholy. And you can't held the book responsible for being over.

Now, Q isn't all there is to H&H obviously.
You can train a fighter and then train for PvE, and PvP (okay easy one).
You can go for a worker and build an awesome place.
You can go for an hermit and explore the world.
You can go RP, and just go around and meet other players, organize events, and have fun with people. (And RP possibilities are limitless)
You can go for a merchant, and build an economical empire.
You can go for an emperor and try to conquer nearby villages / cities.
You can go for a prophet, create a religion of your own, and try and spread its tenets around the world.
You can make a new char again, and forbid yourself some things (like leather) and try to survive in the wild.
You can try to start a village with someone else than your friends and try to be a good leader.
You can try romance! How many of you have given a flower to a random (wo)man ?
...
I'll stop there because there are too much things that come to my mind. And I value my time enough not to enumerate everything you can do in H&H.

Actually the only thing you CAN'T do, is come here and tell us you have nothing more to do in H&H.
So yes, if your imagination can't go further than 'GET HIGHEST Q IRON' I think you totally missed the sandbox you are "playing" in.

Now writing this, I feel like there is an important point to be made.
Whatever you may think you possess in H&H in reality is nothing. Your Imba 300 UC char is really just a few bytes in a database.
Think about it. And try to have fun with something else than HAVING.
It's already sad IRL, in a game it's just pityful.

Though really, isn't that what society taught you; be the best, and have the shiniest things?
Get off of this box guys. Use your imagination.

[whiskeypete]

H&H allows you to do whatever your imagination can think of. Because of an awesome level of RP possibilities.

Get a life.

This post has it all: Missing the point, dictating other people how to have fun and insulting everyone around.

Burg; you missed the beautiful irony of telling people to get a life for not RPing.