Jorbtar Appreciation Thread

[The_Lich_King]

Alright so i think in the past i have made a thread such as this, but i think it is time again. Let's just take a moment to think about the fact that we are playing a game made only by 2 developers whom actually have an entire part of the forum devoted to hearing the opinions of the playerbase and even involving the playerbase in the development of the game. Think about the fact that they keep changing around and re-making several aspects of the game (such as the new combat system) because the players complain even though almost no triple AAA companies would put this much effort into trying to please it's customer base. Let's try and think about the fact that the current free to play model isn't absolute garbage and that the game may be broken as fuck, but it would be WAY more broken had our devs not taken the advice of their playerbase.

Let's try and appreciate Jorbtar at least a little instead of just shitting on the devs, endlessly since our suggestions haven't been implemented, like a bunch of entitled gamers.

[Archiplex]

Feels like a thinly veiled 'let's shit on the community' thread based off the OP than an actual appreciation thread, especially with the entire "entitled gamers" and "no company would ever appeal to its playerbase like this" (which is wrong, fyi- and you even... like, specify this at the end of what you said in that thd devs listened and thus the game is not as broken)

That said, i'll repeat what I said before on the discord, just a bit longer.

I criticize this game because I do, indeed, adore it. Hafen is a one-of-a-kind game that blends a fairly unique developer's vision with harsh mechanics and an overarching sense of progression that, quite frankly, feels great to play in. I wouldn't be here if I hated this game, I'm pretty sure most others speak the same.

There are things that frustrate me about this game, sure- but that's often because I feel like the game could easily be so much more than what it currently is- I'll admit i'm incredibly curious about the thematic outline that jorbtar have laid out for the game and what some of their future 'dream' additions might be- there's so much interesting bits of lore (particularly in credos) that add both to the mystery of the setting and to my curiosity of what they might add, and it's clear that to an extent, they care about preserving the sanctity of the game's setting and mechanics- and i have a fond appreciation of that.

At times, I also feel extremely frustrated at them for seemingly not speaking to us about what they wish to add or what their next focus is- and occasionally they are [i]very[ stubborn about mechanics (especially when they don't actually feel the same impact of those mechanics- i still think they would benefit greatly from taking a week or two to join a major village and see how things work to get a new perspective that way). But this is also because they have a very distinct image of what the game should be like, and are rather focused on achieving that image, even disregarding some things the community might ask for- and this is fine. This is good, even, because while a company that always disregards their community is doomed to fail, one that listens TOO much is just as equally torn apart by the various changes (Anyone here kept up with The Culling? Good example.) They do listen, anyhow- they just don't always note that they are, and I think one of the greatest values a game could have is a focus on delivering a specific experience, rather than bowing to the whims of the community.

I suggest a lot, in part, not because I want those specific suggestions to be added (not to say i specifically say things i dont want added ofc), but because I think that GETTING the devs to look at a part of the issue, explaining in detail what the issue is, and giving my own take on a possible fix is important. Too many suggestions are just complaints or half-thought out grievances rather than holistic and examining the various parts of a subsystem and explaining WHAT it should accomplish. Saying "Combat bad!" doesn't help anyone; even detailing what you dislike isn't always useful- but having a sort of 'mission' statement of what you think combat flow should be like and how you feel it can be accomplished is the proper way to do it all, tbh.

So, all in all, I love this game and I don't want the devs to ever think otherwise. Nothing I do or say is ever made with intent to 'shit' on the devs, either- at worst I just get frustrated with what the devs appear to be doing (especially when it feels like they disregard issues easily or ignore feedback, like the seasons implementation screwing up some credos for a while, or way-back-then when it took months just to get archery implemented into valhalla, not to mention the actual changes to archery...)- and again, that frustration IS because I care about the game.

So, yes. Thank you both, Jorb and Loftar. I just wish you two would talk more in detail about your plans and dreams for the future of this game.

[The_Lich_King]

Feels like a thinly veiled 'let's shit on the community' thread based off the OP than an actual appreciation thread, especially with the entire "entitled gamers" and "no company would ever appeal to its playerbase like this" (which is wrong, fyi- and you even... like, specify this at the end of what you said in that thd devs listened and thus the game is not as broken)

That said, i'll repeat what I said before on the discord, just a bit longer.

I criticize this game because I do, indeed, adore it. Hafen is a one-of-a-kind game that blends a fairly unique developer's vision with harsh mechanics and an overarching sense of progression that, quite frankly, feels great to play in. I wouldn't be here if I hated this game, I'm pretty sure most others speak the same.

There are things that frustrate me about this game, sure- but that's often because I feel like the game could easily be so much more than what it currently is- I'll admit i'm incredibly curious about the thematic outline that jorbtar have laid out for the game and what some of their future 'dream' additions might be- there's so much interesting bits of lore (particularly in credos) that add both to the mystery of the setting and to my curiosity of what they might add, and it's clear that to an extent, they care about preserving the sanctity of the game's setting and mechanics- and i have a fond appreciation of that.

At times, I also feel extremely frustrated at them for seemingly not speaking to us about what they wish to add or what their next focus is- and occasionally they are [i]very[ stubborn about mechanics (especially when they don't actually feel the same impact of those mechanics- i still think they would benefit greatly from taking a week or two to join a major village and see how things work to get a new perspective that way). But this is also because they have a very distinct image of what the game should be like, and are rather focused on achieving that image, even disregarding some things the community might ask for- and this is fine. This is good, even, because while a company that always disregards their community is doomed to fail, one that listens TOO much is just as equally torn apart by the various changes (Anyone here kept up with The Culling? Good example.) They do listen, anyhow- they just don't always note that they are, and I think one of the greatest values a game could have is a focus on delivering a specific experience, rather than bowing to the whims of the community.

I suggest a lot, in part, not because I want those specific suggestions to be added (not to say i specifically say things i dont want added ofc), but because I think that GETTING the devs to look at a part of the issue, explaining in detail what the issue is, and giving my own take on a possible fix is important. Too many suggestions are just complaints or half-thought out grievances rather than holistic and examining the various parts of a subsystem and explaining WHAT it should accomplish. Saying "Combat bad!" doesn't help anyone; even detailing what you dislike isn't always useful- but having a sort of 'mission' statement of what you think combat flow should be like and how you feel it can be accomplished is the proper way to do it all, tbh.

So, all in all, I love this game and I don't want the devs to ever think otherwise. Nothing I do or say is ever made with intent to 'shit' on the devs, either- at worst I just get frustrated with what the devs appear to be doing (especially when it feels like they disregard issues easily or ignore feedback, like the seasons implementation screwing up some credos for a while, or way-back-then when it took months just to get archery implemented into valhalla, not to mention the actual changes to archery...)- and again, that frustration IS because I care about the game.

So, yes. Thank you both, Jorb and Loftar. I just wish you two would talk more in detail about your plans and dreams for the future of this game.

I didn't make this thread to shit on the community, even if i do alot because i get REALLY upset with hafen community alot, i mostly made this thread because i see alot of people say something along the lines of "Devs don't care about this game." or "Just let this game die." These aren't true and can be pretty discouraging and i think it's fair to say that the devs are trying and aren't even failing to near the extent that some people claim they are (I was also spurred to make this thread after taking Jordan's strawpoll and seeing that a significant amount of players left simply becuase they don't like jorbtar.) So i mostly just want the Devs to know, that we may shit on alot of their decisions but we also appreciate alot of them and with what i said about devs including the playerbase in decision making, i feel like the devs of this game do it FAR moreso than other devs, although i could be wrong about that too, as you brought up examples such as the culling.

At any rate i agree with you, that i criticize this game and some of it's mechanics because i think alot of it could be better, but that doesn't mean i dislike the game.

[Vigilance]

please snip when you quote archiplex my poor scroll wheel will die at this rate

i do agree with the sentiment that they expressed because pretty much all of these jerk-off-the-devs threads are based on "Waaaah great community btw" and dismissive as fuck of genuinely placed concerns/frustrations because they're being lumped in with shubla-esque shitposts, bitchposts, and tirades about "waaah this mechanic sucks" "jlo can eat a wee wee" "worst devs ever" "fuckin big idiots dont listen to nobody"

im just glad jorb and loftar are only human and not so firmly up their own asses (anymore, as they were in the past) that they can acknowledge at least some of the shortcomings and design flaws they implement and work towards reverting them or mending mistakes. do i wish they didn't patch in incomplete or otherwise not-totally-thought-out mechanics? absolutely. do i expect them to patch flawlessly, everything i need to cater to my whims? fuck no, i'd be alarmed at this point if they did, because this is how i expect them to be.

in summary: stop settling for things being implemented terribly, make C&I threads, make them concise, to the point, make them loud and impossible to ignore, but don't make them loud enough that our favorite green people hel/lock them. but absolutely stop the mindless screaming and squealing about how everything sucks because if i've learned one thing it's that jlo don't react very well to outright shit-talking and inflammatory speech, because who does?

[Archiplex]

make them concise, to the point,

but my essays

[MagicManICT]

make them concise, to the point,

but my essays

I like your essays! But I'm that kind of nerd.

[Vigilance]

but my essays

I like your essays! But I'm that kind of nerd.

trust me i noticed