I am farming wok

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Re: I am farming wok

Postby MagicManICT » Wed Dec 25, 2019 5:05 am

I like how a meme thread has diverged off into some conversation about health and food. :lol:
shubla wrote:Why should I reduce my lifespan by eating unhealthy things to gain happiness, when I can eat healthy things and still be happy?

Why should I reduce my happiness so that I can live a few more years that I probably won't contribute any more to the world than I already have? George burns smoked cigars from the time he was 14... lived past 100. French cooking has always used a lot of lard and butter, yet they have a traditionally longer life span than many other nations and cultures that had similar levels of fats in their diet. Nobody knows for sure what the exact "killer ingredient" in food is because it can be extremely different from one group to the next. doen't help that one minute we see "hey, this legitimate report says to not eat salt" and a few decades later we see "study paid for by corporate sugar interests." (Note: not the only recently debunked 'theory' on healthy eating we found to be laden with heavy self-promotion by one industry or another.)

My theory: eat what your family eats if they live to be old. If they don't, then think about changing your diet. At worst, you'll live about as long as they do.
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Re: I am farming wok

Postby Rexz » Wed Dec 25, 2019 5:38 am

If you alter your diet, you may find that there are a lot of ways to make things yummy while still being relatively healthy compare to the more popular options.
Sure they may not be as rich as stuff that are loaded with sugar or fat, but they can be still delicious with the right ingredients and preparation.

Taste is relative anyway, and for me personally, it has swung wildy over the years. I remember being homeless for a couple days when I ran out of money while backpacking in Europe, and someone offered me heated canned broth with some thick crackers, and I enjoyed it as much as a juicy steak I could be having back home, all just because I was struck by hunger as a weary traveler.
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Re: I am farming wok

Postby shubla » Wed Dec 25, 2019 5:39 am

George burns smoked cigars from the time he was 14... lived past 100.

I don't see how it is in any way relevant to this discussion. If you mean that I should start smoking to live long, I don't think it works that way!

My theory: eat what your family eats if they live to be old. If they don't, then think about changing your diet. At worst, you'll live about as long as they do.

There is some luck involved, so this is not reliable. There is also a chance that they live old not because of diet, but because of some other thing, like their job, and they may have lived even longer if they had a good diet. I would probably trust in research, instead of personal experiences.

Why should I reduce my happiness so that I can live a few more years that I probably won't contribute any more to the world than I already have?

Bad diet does not only cause death, but may cause you a lot of suffering before the death comes, few people regret that they didn't eat lard at their deathbed. If one only pursues happiness and does not care what happens after he dies, why not just buy hardest drugs you can find? Happiness reduction from not eating lard is a minor thing. It may even do the opposite, increase happiness, because you may feel better when you don't eat stuff like that. Many people have given up eating meat, and have felt better ever since.

French cooking has always used a lot of lard and butter, yet they have a traditionally longer life span than many other nations and cultures that had similar levels of fats in their diet

There are other things that affect to lifespan statistics than whether you eat lard and butter or not. So this doesn't prove anything without first (trying) to eliminate those other things away.

Nobody knows for sure what the exact "killer ingredient" in food is because it can be extremely different from one group to the next.

Lots of research has been done on nutrition, and there are also results. If you say that eating lard is as healthy (or healthier) than stuff like canola oil, it's just absurd. People who deny it I would compare to antivaxxers. It is a rather large conspiracy if it was the opposite. If all experts, doctors, recommendations by governments of many countries say that excess salt is dangerous, they may be right. But of course you know better because you have googled a few papers which say the opposite? With salt there is also a quite logical explanation for why too much of it is not good, admittedly for many things the explanations may be complicated, which may result in people not believing the claims.

Rexz wrote:If you alter your diet, you may find that there are a lot of ways to make things yummy while still being relatively healthy compare to the more popular options.
Sure they may not be as rich as stuff that are loaded with sugar or fat, but they can be still delicious with the right ingredients and preparation.

Taste is relative anyway, and for me personally, it has swung wildy over the years. I remember being homeless for a couple days when I ran out of money while backpacking in Europe, and someone offered me heated canned broth with some thick crackers, and I enjoyed it as much as a juicy steak I could be having back home, all just because I was struck by hunger as a weary traveler.

I agree, I was a typical Finn, eating lots of meat, like every day, until recently I tried to just stop eating it, because of health concerns. I haven't regretted. I sometimes eat it if there is no alternative or I feel like it (which is like chicken 1-2 times a month), I eat fish though.
This also resulted in my taste changing. I don't think that tofu was that good on the first try, but now I eat tofu straight from the fridge and I think that it tastes pretty good, even without any spices, I even think that the texture is better than what ground beef is, which I ate a lot before.

Recently I also ate some food with beans, lentils and mushrooms, which sounds very suspicious and not-good-tasting, but it was surprisingly good.
People think that meat is good probably only because they have eaten it for a long time and decided that meat is the best and other things are not as good, even though they could just try to change their taste and get same amount of satisfaction from healthier alternatives.
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Re: I am farming wok

Postby Potjeh » Wed Dec 25, 2019 6:13 am

Fostik wrote:
Potjeh wrote:And nah, lard isn't worse for you than vegetable oil in any way.


Actually mutch worse - trans fats banned in many countries, and rendered animal fat is a trans fat too, that's why it doesnt sell anywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_fat ... regulation

Good thing lard has zero trans fats then. Trans fats are mostly found in hydrogenated vegetable oil, so the stuff that's marketed as healthier alternatives (margarine and vegetable shortening) is actually the worst stuff you can eat.
shubla wrote:Fat also contains lots of energy in a small amount which is not good.

Fats are slow release energy, which means you feel full for longer and consequently eat less. Carbs are a boom and bust energy source, you get lots of energy quickly, then your blood sugar spikes which makes your insulin spike so your body can deposit this excess energy into your fat tissue, and over long term this causes diabetes. And when this energy is deposited, you feel hungry again. Eating lots of carbs is fine if you're actually going to burn all that quick energy with strenous physical activity, but if you're sedentary you're better off getting your energy from fats. And carbs are the only major non-essential food group, you need proteins for building and maintaining muscle and you need fats for hormone synthesis, but the only use for carbs is energy.

Personally I'm using lard every day and I'm at a healthy weight of 92kg. Back when I consumed more carbs in form of bread and soda I reached 106kg. I'm 194cm tall, for reference.
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Re: I am farming wok

Postby SumFaggotPlayTester » Wed Dec 25, 2019 6:58 am

Three minutes until !wokmass in UTC-6. Merry !wokmass everyone. Also Shulba, go eat the most unhealth, T H I C Cist, slice of cheese cake for New Years and never touch it again. And enjoy it. Enjoy that shit damn it. Its okay to splurge within reason and not die from it. Unless you lick the concrete floor in a lead factory most foods will not kill you if you don't eat them like you're about to starve 24/7. :lol:

Edit: Fucks sake I was off by three minutes of !wokmass.
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Re: I am farming wok

Postby MagicManICT » Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:50 am

shubla wrote: don't see how it is in any way relevant to this discussion. If you mean that I should start smoking to live long, I don't think it works that way!

If you can't see that, than I can't help you. Let me briefly explain: science, especially public health, is about averaging out statistics. There are always oddballs in the statistics, and people who don't conform to what the averages are. For every George Burns that lives to 100 smoking every day for life, there's some poor guy that died to tobacco related illness by the age of 35. You don't know your triggers because medical science just hasn't gotten good enough yet to fully diagnose individuals, just an individual compared to the averages.

shubla wrote:There is some luck involved, so this is not reliable. There is also a chance that they live old not because of diet, but because of some other thing, like their job, and they may have lived even longer if they had a good diet. I would probably trust in research, instead of personal experiences.

this is quite true, and risk levels of jobs are a huge factor in life longevity. "Well, my uncle lived to 90 and ate lard for cooking and at meals instead of butter or olive oil, but his brother died at 45 eating the same diet." (I'm not mentioning that he died at sea as a merchant marine due to a catastrophic failure in his ship at sea. Also, not a true story; just some random thought in my head for an example.)
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Re: I am farming wok

Postby shubla » Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:38 am

MagicManICT wrote:
shubla wrote: don't see how it is in any way relevant to this discussion. If you mean that I should start smoking to live long, I don't think it works that way!

If you can't see that, than I can't help you. Let me briefly explain: science, especially public health, is about averaging out statistics. There are always oddballs in the statistics, and people who don't conform to what the averages are. For every George Burns that lives to 100 smoking every day for life, there's some poor guy that died to tobacco related illness by the age of 35. You don't know your triggers because medical science just hasn't gotten good enough yet to fully diagnose individuals, just an individual compared to the averages.)

That is why one must minimize the risk by avoiding things that "may" cause bad things. But statistics is not the only tool used for analysis. For example, harmful effects of tobacco have been studied in other methods as well. I doubt that anyone is immune to harmful effects of tobacco, why some people live long lives even if they are heavy smokers, I don't know. Good luck and slightly better genetics probably.
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Re: I am farming wok

Postby LadyV » Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:12 pm

Butter, lard, duck fat... are not necessarily unhealthy. You merely need to remember portion size and amounts. The recipe I posted earlier used two tablespoons of rendered duck fat. That is a rather small amount of fat. Spread it over the whole dish and the amount of intake goes down by a lot. Added in the oil that will be left on a dish or even maybe placed on a paper towel before serving and you get even less.

As already mentioned the fats above are not trans fats unless they have been hydrogenated. Always read your labels. They are however saturated fats. Which means just control your portions. You can also negate the fats by eating healthy. Many people use natural fats like lard, butter... They also pair it with fruits, vegetables, greens, and high fiber breads. It is these things when added to a meal actually cancel out some or all of the fat you take in.

So go have green beans cooked with bacon fat, potatoes in the drippings of a chicken or turkey, a pie with crust made with lard, and yes eve the potatos galette I mentioned. They are fine to consume. My only warnings are if you have health issues such as diabetes or heart disease then keep your portions small.
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Re: I am farming wok

Postby Fostik » Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:46 pm

MagicManICT wrote:My theory: eat what your family eats if they live to be old. If they don't, then think about changing your diet. At worst, you'll live about as long as they do.


That's the truth. Evolution never stops and if people living in unique place for long time with unique diet - their metabolism adjust to this food over generations.
There's good example - eskimos, their diet is mostly fat and fish, they almost not receive any carbohydrates. Other people will die pretty fast on such diet :)
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Re: I am farming wok

Postby shubla » Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:08 pm

LadyV wrote:Butter, lard, duck fat... are not necessarily unhealthy. You merely need to remember portion size and amounts. The recipe I posted earlier used two tablespoons of rendered duck fat. That is a rather small amount of fat. Spread it over the whole dish and the amount of intake goes down by a lot. Added in the oil that will be left on a dish or even maybe placed on a paper towel before serving and you get even less.

As already mentioned the fats above are not trans fats unless they have been hydrogenated. Always read your labels. They are however saturated fats. Which means just control your portions. You can also negate the fats by eating healthy. Many people use natural fats like lard, butter... They also pair it with fruits, vegetables, greens, and high fiber breads. It is these things when added to a meal actually cancel out some or all of the fat you take in.

So go have green beans cooked with bacon fat, potatoes in the drippings of a chicken or turkey, a pie with crust made with lard, and yes eve the potatos galette I mentioned. They are fine to consume. My only warnings are if you have health issues such as diabetes or heart disease then keep your portions small.

They are unhealthy even in quite small quantities, of course small amounts have less effects than larger amounts. Less is better of course, but there is no denying that safest thing is just to not eat them at all! Or very rarely.
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