HArdcore pvp

[Noidzz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34RPwDf ... trifeHayes

I agree with everything Josh says in this youtube clip and Reference all comments to H&H -

I loved this game but i'm not a kid anymore i have kids of my own now and i can't play with them in this game.
I'm not posting this so the HC player can get all aggressive, I'm saying they both have a place and we need to find a solution before the nextg world.
I'm simple pointing out i and many others want the ability to log in and play with my friends at there own pace and not have to Create some AI bot players to keep up with the main player base, because the second you go to enjoy the pvp you so far behind there is no point. or play 24/7. just so you don't get 1 hit.

Iuse to be so against pVE but as i have grown up i totally get it now .
I don't even mind if the characters have full loot/stats loss as this can mostly be regained fairly quickly. but having my warehouse completely raided is just the moment i say yep i'm done i'll go play one of the other 20 other MMORPGs games.

I'm trying to bring to the attention of the devs that the core game mechanics needs to change OR simple create 2 servers and then maybe connect them - i know why ppl don't like this and it's becuase most will play on the pve server.

Anyway, this is just me & and my opinion getting frustrated at a game i like

The dev's have mentioned:"The H&H game world attempts -- to no small an extent -- to simulate events and processes of the real world in a digitalized form "

Attempting to simulate events and processes of the real world my argument here would be something like this - in the real world you are born into a village or born into a faction that from your birth you have numbers with you, it was no small Feet to simple raid a town. yes there would be small house and things on the outskirts that would get raided. but at least they have a choice of picking safty in numbers or stay with the faction or go it alone etc.

* ideas around solutions
1. - GAted progression
1.1 - hard cap progress ever week allow more skill gain ( like 10) and week or somthing.
1.2 - 2 servers pvp & pve - have them connect in some commen instance,
1.3 - 1 server but limit what resources can be taken / damage doen during a raid.
1.3 - random safe zone
1.4 - actually do something about the bots - lols!
1.5 - copy what EVE does/ Runescape /every other MMO that has a compromise - Safe sec zones - like sureface is safe and or as you go out yo get more risk,
1.6 - FACtion warfare allow players to pick a npc faction from the start,

i'm sure others will come up with solutions - would rather easy solutions not Game resigns

Thanks for youtr time

[Odynak]

PVE is not good for causal players as well.

If you want cheese you need animals. If you want to breed animals you cannot make breaks so your animals not gonna starve.

[Kaios]

It's been stated countless times by many different people that in open world pvp games there will always be a small minority of players that ruin it for themselves and the rest of the player population because they must have their fun at the expense of the fun of others. New World being one of the most recent examples of this, the inevitable decline in players as a result of such mechanics has happened with every single MMO to attempt hardcore/full loot/open world/etc pvp modes. By the time the developers try to change those mechanics to entice new players to (re)join and stay long-term, it's already too late and they only further alienate the players that stuck it out by changing what the developers originally stated to be fundamental concepts.

The fact of the matter is, an MMO game cannot be sustained long-term with those types of pvp mechanics in place and we have seen it time and time again with the numerous failed launches over the past several years.

[Zentetsuken]

It's been stated countless times by many different people that in open world pvp games there will always be a small minority of players that ruin it for themselves and the rest of the player population because they must have their fun at the expense of the fun of others. New World being one of the most recent examples of this, the inevitable decline in players as a result of such mechanics has happened with every single MMO to attempt hardcore/full loot/open world/etc pvp modes. By the time the developers try to change those mechanics to entice new players to (re)join and stay long-term, it's already too late and they only further alienate the players that stuck it out by changing what the developers originally stated to be fundamental concepts.

The fact of the matter is, an MMO game cannot be sustained long-term with those types of pvp mechanics in place and we have seen it time and time again with the numerous failed launches over the past several years.

I don't like haven pvp very much, nor have any of the real modern pvp type games appealed to be too much either, but you are just straight up wrong.

There are tons of games that have stood the test of time that are full loot pvp types of games, and tons of games that have stood the test of time that offer a balance of pve and pvp. I don't think you can in any way prove that the population decline has anything to do with pvp. Games get old and repetitive. New World is just a terrible, shitty game regardless of its pvp.

Haven might be one of the only games that I would argue is a tiny bit "ruined" by its pvp but that is because there is no balance in gameplay between pvp and pve.

The game has been developed for 10 years to accommodate an endless pve grind with oodles and oodles of pve content, and it has an incredibly poorly-though-out pvp system slapped ontop. This is largely because there are only 2 devs who have a seemingly limited interest in the game and an even smaller idea of what they are doing when it comes to tweaking and balancing fundamental mechanics since they have never played their own game seriously.

The simplest fix at this point is just opt-in-only pvp.

Believing that any combat rewrites or future balances will solve any problems is unrealistic, and believing that this game will ever land on a well balanced pve/pvp world for all types of players to enjoy is unrealistic.

opt-in-only pvp is realistic for the devs to implement and solves many problems with 1 quick and ugly bandaid

[Kaios]

Did you even look at the video that was linked? The title is quite literally "Why Hardcore Full Loot PVP MMO's Fail" so I don't know why you bothered posting an argument when you're arguing from a position of bad faith.

Retard.

[Halbertz]

JSH

I watch his videos time to time, the guy definitely has experience and some level of competence. He has things that you simply cannot disagree with (regarding poor interfaces and monetization).
BUT. Let's be honest: I didn't study his backstory, but after watching a dozen of his videos, I can say for sure that he is a casual player who never achieved anything in games.
If your goal is to attract more audience to the game, then yes - you should listen to this guy, he knows how to attract the same casuals (90% of the game base).
Only thing that I do not understand is how this relates to HnH? It seems clear to everyone that Haven is a social experiment of the Swedish government, where you (the player) are the gay protagonist of the future tree combersation game.

[wonder-ass]

rust is basically hardcore pvp and its doing really well. the issue is mmo games dont know what the fuck they want to be there is so much pve content but the game is hardcore pvp? so all the pve nerds get slaughtered by the pvp nerds that dont give a shit about pve.

[vatas]

[dafels]

10+ years and still haven/hafen has the around same playercount or even less now than before when the pvp was more hardcore and I really haven't ever thought of it to be a failing game. Play the game and make up your own opinion instead of watching some shitters on the youtube for 10 mins to make your opinion smh

[SnuggleSnail]

Do you rly think Jorb and Loftar could complete with games like world of warcraft that shit out an entire raid tier of like 12 bosses every 3-6 months and an expansion every 2 years? Hell, even Sims2 from like 3-4 years after I was born is better at supporting LARP than haven. I don't think Haven wants to go from a niche space with literally no competition to trying to appeal exclusively to people who already play Minecraft/Factorio 8 hours a day


Also, obligatory: Rust, RuneScape: Deadman Mode, Tibia, EVE, MO, World of Warcraft: Ascension, Ultima Online, EverQuest