A comprehensive list of """significant""" events this world

[SnuggleSnail]

• Raid on Polska pre-walls
• Partial raid on Tea party due to security flaw/bug (patched)
• 2-3 people from Norsca commit assisted suicide via drowning or clever use of game mechanics (clearly very new PVPers, barely counts)
• Somebody from Arcanum commits assisted suicide via drowning due to panic or client issues
• Somebody from Tea Party commits assisted suicide via drowning because the misclicked into the water while dropping gear

I might've missed 1 or 2 deaths of fighters, but even so they feel kindof irrelevant since dying typically seems to make your character stronger now. There have for sure been more suicides to gain stats than murders.

It's not rly my place to say the evolution of the game is wrong/bad, but I started playing this game in world 7 from googling something similar to "OPEN PVP MMO where I can delete characters", and I started playing again in world 10 because I saw a videos of the Aurora/Maid Cafe sieges. Nothing that has happened in the last year or so would make me interested in the same way.

I'm here for drama and people occasionally getting absolutely fucking shit on. The 99.5% of the time where nothing happens has been justified by the .5% of the time where something is /really/ happening. Even as an uninvolved pleb in world 7/10, just knowing that there's people dying & getting sieged/raided, the drama threads made things interesting for me.

That shit doesn't exist anymore. You can't die short of having brain aneurysm, siege is so unrealistic I would personally not siege somebody I had a personal vandetta against if I knew they literally would not defend in spite of being the siegiest sieger in the game. Raiding outside of bugs/clever use of game mechanics hasn't been a thing since, uh, world 9? 8?

I don't rly have a point I guess. Just lamenting that the core aspect of what made haven interesting to me is kindof gone & it seems like the intent is to go further in the direction of making nothing interesting happen ever again.

[Zentetsuken]

• Faction groups cried and wrote novellas until mine pyre wait times got reduced (a testament to how terrible pvp is, because they were all willing to quit the game and cry if their metal industry got more than 2 days behind their competition)
• Rain was added, much to the dismay of people who enjoy high FPS, but a great step forward for larp.
• A new deer (exciting!)
• Mystic credo made arguably more accessible due to the implementation of liberty caps, alongside a small rework
• Longstanding palisade-cascade wall bashing method finally fixed
• Champignons and our first method of cave-farming added (very fun!)
• Devs unironically attempted to destroy their own game balance even further by adding armor gilding and insta-death ship evictions
• Minmaxers unironically cried about the implementation of greenhouses
• Wrecking balls now require permissions to use, effectively removing siege from the game. (a positive step forward!)

I definitely don't think I missed anything because all the other content and changes so far have been pretty irrelevant and fluffy.

The evolution of the game is wrong/bad. The game should no longer be an "OPEN PVP MMO" where people can delete characters. It needs to embrace change and leave permadeath and pvp behind and accept that these things no long mesh well with the game.

The people who play this game for pvp are only here for drama and people occasionally getting absolutely fucking shit on. The actual combat system in its relation to "base defense" and "altercation solver" is non-existent. 99.5% of game development surrounding combat has been catalyzed from feedback from .5% of the players who don't even use pvp the way the devs envisioned it. Even uninvolved plebs realize that things need to change.

PVP shouldn't exist anymore. Enjoying PVP is analogous with having a brain aneurysm. Siege is also bad and should be removed. I would personally not siege somebody I had a personal vandetta against because carrying out personal vandettas in a video game is cringe. Not even PVPers like siege, they only want to raid using bugs/clever abuse of unintended game mechanics.

The point is that PVP is not a tool in Haven and Hearth, it is only a minigame for losers who want to upset people out of bordeum. The core aspect of what makes haven interesting has evolved for well over a decade. The intent should be to head further in the direction of making combat less terrible, and in the meantime PVP should be removed because it is a gift for factions and nobody else.

[Necrisha]

[list]
[*]Faction groups cried and wrote novellas until mine pyre wait times got reduced (a testament to how terrible pvp is, because they were all willing to quit the game and cry if their metal industry got more than 2 days behind their competition)

This right here explains why death in pvp, raiding, and sieges have been horribly nerfed. If you absolutely erase another players progress where they realise you are only going to get stronger and they are getting dragged further and further behind with each raid- they are going to quit, and you won't even get a drama post.

Raids, sieges and death are being nerfed because they are being used as tools to shit on other people until they quit playing. Every time you do that, you are shooting yourself in the foot, and denying yourself the drama you crave. If people didn't feel like all their progress was getting erased every time they got raided, this wouldn't be such a problem, but pvper's just want to raze everything anyone else does to the ground, so since they deny any other playstyle nice things- they don't get nice things either.

[Zentetsuken]

[list]
[*]Faction groups cried and wrote novellas until mine pyre wait times got reduced (a testament to how terrible pvp is, because they were all willing to quit the game and cry if their metal industry got more than 2 days behind their competition)

This right here explains why death in pvp, raiding, and sieges have been horribly nerfed. If you absolutely erase another players progress where they realise you are only going to get stronger and they are getting dragged further and further behind with each raid- they are going to quit, and you won't even get a drama post.

Raids, sieges and death are being nerfed because they are being used as tools to shit on other people until they quit playing. Every time you do that, you are shooting yourself in the foot, and denying yourself the drama you crave. If people didn't feel like all their progress was getting erased every time they got raided, this wouldn't be such a problem, but pvper's just want to raze everything anyone else does to the ground, so since they deny any other playstyle nice things- they don't get nice things either.

This has been how it is for years and years.

Jorb has stated on many occasions that even though they have practically zero interaction with the pvp system, they believe it serves some purpose in game as a tool to solve confrontations, which has not been true since practically legacy.

I'd be willing to bet that for every ONE time a claim was sieged or a group pvpd in order to solve a disagreement over land or resources or ingame politics,
that a few hundred new players, hermits, or casuals, or "pvpers for the sake of pvping" have been senselessly and needlessly killed or sieged for the simple sake of somebody find it amusing to upset others

It is no secret that PVPers, PVP feedback from PVPers and PVP player toxicity is the current reason why PVP (and therefore the game) is in the irremediable state that is currently in.

It is just a shame that even now, their minority complaints and tears over how bad things have gotten are still louder and weighted heavier than the 99%, even though it is their fault.

[Virs]

[list]
It's not rly my place to say the evolution of the game is wrong/bad, but I started playing this game in world 7 from googling something similar to "OPEN PVP MMO where I can delete characters", and I started playing again in world 10 because I saw a videos of the Aurora/Maid Cafe sieges. Nothing that has happened in the last year or so would make me interested in the same way.

I'm here for drama and people occasionally getting absolutely fucking shit on. The 99.5% of the time where nothing happens has been justified by the .5% of the time where something is /really/ happening. Even as an uninvolved pleb in world 7/10, just knowing that there's people dying & getting sieged/raided, the drama threads made things interesting for me.

That shit doesn't exist anymore. You can't die short of having brain aneurysm, siege is so unrealistic I would personally not siege somebody I had a personal vandetta against if I knew they literally would not defend in spite of being the siegiest sieger in the game. Raiding outside of bugs/clever use of game mechanics hasn't been a thing since, uh, world 9? 8?

I don't rly have a point I guess. Just lamenting that the core aspect of what made haven interesting to me is kindof gone & it seems like the intent is to go further in the direction of making nothing interesting happen ever again.

You literally chose harvest moon inspired game with wonky combat mechanics to look for complicated politics, PvP and reasonable amount of action. I wouldn't like to insult anyone but the level of naivety seems to be the core issue here.

[SnuggleSnail]

Calling 16-22 year old poor europeans egoing at each other politics is very fake and gay, but that's not what I mean.

At some point your entire village got wiped if you didn't ramcheck every 12 hours, and your character 100% died if you got KOed every time.
Then raids turned into day long sieges.
Then death got made super uncommon.
Then death was effectively removed.
Then the few remaining exploits to occasionally do raids were removed.
Then siege as even a concept was removed.
Now skill & clients are at a place where practically all """real""" PVP is consentual because escaping is so easy/consistent.
Next I'm kindof expecting drowning to get removed since it's the only way people can die short of being trapped RN

I kindof agree that his game is a far more tedious/grindy harvest moon now, at least once you're competent enough. It didn't start out that way, though. Very cool very impactful shit happened at least occasionally whenever I started.

You can definitely make good arguments for each of these changes being better for player retention or mass appeal, but boy is the main reason I was interested in this game kinda dead. I mean, I still like making bots & griefing nabs(since they actually die), but it's sad that the experience has been made smoother at the expense of anything consequential happening ever.

I would personally rather play seasonally and quit after 6 weeks because I got killed/raided than play for 6 months and quit because I'm bored and nothing happened all world.

[Audiosmurf]

You should quit for good. :3c

[Zentetsuken]

Calling 16-22 year old poor europeans egoing at each other politics is very fake and gay, but that's not what I mean.

Who are we to judge our less fortunate brothers? I am sure that the politics of Haven are some of the most important social interactions that many of these people have had in ages.

At some point your entire village got wiped if you didn't ramcheck every 12 hours, and your character 100% died if you got KOed every time.

This was only ever true in legacy (or maybe for a tiny bit in early, early new Haven, and only if you had a resource that somebody cared about of somebody knew who you were. Literally was only a problem for faction people.

Then raids turned into day long sieges.

For faction versus faction people only. Any competent sprucecap killer could still terrorize noobs and get them out of their walls and effectively siege.

Then death got made super uncommon.

For faction versus faction situations only.

Then death was effectively removed.

For faction versus faction situation only.

Then the few remaining exploits to occasionally do raids were removed.

Exploits were only ever used by faction people and there are still exploitive ways to get the upperhand in many situations that are only known by faction people.

Then siege as even a concept was removed.

For faction versus faction situations only.

Now skill & clients are at a place where practically all """real""" PVP is consentual because escaping is so easy/consistent.

"real PVP" being the faction people who literally schedule it with each other? The same PVP that completely ends after 2 months? This is not PVP, this is a nostalgia-driven copium minigame.

Next I'm kindof expecting drowning to get removed since it's the only way people can die short of being trapped RN

If drowning got removed it would apparently only stop about 2 deaths per year for the copium pvp vets, according to your first post. But we both know it would save the characters of probably 100s of casuals, new players and hermits who are killed in boats and trolled in various ways by bored sprucecap killers for no reason.

I would personally rather play seasonally and quit after 6 weeks because I got killed/raided than play for 6 months and quit because I'm bored and nothing happened all world.

I think you would find that you are in a extraordinarily small minority with this opinion.



Again, PVPers ruined the game for PVPers.

The problem is that all the manipulating, lies and fake feedback given to the devs over this time has caused the game to evolve in a way that has negatively impacted the game for everybody.

PVP has become a stale copium minigame for bored nostalgiabois and with this evolution it has made the game a meta-filled minmaxing nightmare playground for torturing new players.

5+ years of development has gone in to getting us here, largely driven by the feedback of the 1%.

The 99% have been left in the dust and are quietly making the best of what they have. PVP, sieging, character death and other mechanics that have been practically removed from the game for faction players are still rampant and real possibilities for everybody else. Since 90% of PVPers quit after a month of huffing their scheduled nostalgia copium fights where nobody can die and no bases are ever in danger, the dummies who have very bad computers, less willpower or stronger mental illnesses are left behind to find something else to do. That something is torture the rest of the players, the players who CAN die and who CAN be raided.

Due to the strong meta and circlejerky scheduled approach to this "PVP", the groups that are quickly embarrassed and shoo'd away from the competent bigboi fights are also left with nobody else to tango with besides the people who simply cannot defend themselves, and who can die. (see: Arcanum)

Since we can't go back in time 5 years and unmanipulate the devs, the only logical approach is to remove PVP.
It is necessary to fix the game at this point.
The game that PVPers destroyed for everybody, including themselves, with their selfish manipulative feedback.

[Sevenless]

Although permadeath is effectively removed, player retention among pvpers and factions seems to be about the same. There are significantly more fights because lower stated/geared pvpers won't be completely ended if they mess up.

You talk elsewhere about making the pvp side of the game accessible, reworking permadeath into the wound system seems to do exactly that.

[Zentetsuken]

Although permadeath is effectively removed, player retention among pvpers and factions seems to be about the same. There are significantly more fights because lower stated/geared pvpers won't be completely ended if they mess up.

You talk elsewhere about making the pvp side of the game accessible, reworking permadeath into the wound system seems to do exactly that.

First of all, I don't think there are more fights and the time frame in which "real fights" happen has been shrinking each year.

Secondly, do you even know what accessible means? Did you read anything I wrote?

Permadeath is still in the game, it's just not something that any faction player worries about because with decent pvp meta knowledge and gear/stats it can pretty effectively be completely forgotten about. Permadeath still exists for everybody else and people are getting killed all the time. Permadeath existing only for the 99% is part of what makes combat and PVP inaccessible.

Factions are built on massive industry and people who nolife the game and minmax everythere, so even if a real actual death occurs, a faction player can get back on their feet with way less hurdles than a 99%er.

PVP is inaccessible because it is dangerous and unfun for 99% of the playerbase. The other 1% do it for fun, without worrying about consequences at all.