Hafens barrier to entry

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Re: Hafens barrier to entry

Postby Hasta » Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:29 am

maxeusz wrote:Can't we just fix that by the simple rule that the custom clients are either public (accessible for everyone) or prohibited and bannable?

"We" can. But "we" are
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Re: Hafens barrier to entry

Postby Aerona » Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:30 am

No, Jorb and Loftar have expressed that there's no way to ban custom clients because they can perfectly mimic the traffic produced by the client they made themselves. If the server can't tell whether a custom client is in use, it would be impractical to enforce a ban. So their approach is to diminish the incentives to play in distorted ways rather than to make it impossible.
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Re: Hafens barrier to entry

Postby Kaios » Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:32 am

overtyped wrote:
Aerona wrote:The maximum irony would be if the player using the flattening client loses a fight because they have no idea what's happening in an indirect ranged weapon engagement, or when a melee fight is going up or down a slope.


Did you hit your head?


It makes sense, there is already a change in speed when going up or down a slope and steeper slopes affect the speed more. That they would add more intricacies such as these isn’t outside the realm of possibility, and it would make sense that a person at a higher elevation than their enemy would have an advantage whether it is a ranged or close combat fight.

Of course, I do think custom client features could account for and indicate these changes in elevation while still hiding them but at this time there are certainly not any publicly available that would be capable of that.
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Re: Hafens barrier to entry

Postby Hasta » Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:39 am

Kaios wrote:a person at a higher elevation than their enemy would have an advantage


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Re: Hafens barrier to entry

Postby vatas » Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:41 am

Private clients already violate some kind of open source license within the client. I'm assuming they use a rather standard clause in open-source projects; you can freely modify the source code, but you also have to publish the changes and let anyone else use them in same way.

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) there is no cyber-police enforcing software license agreements.
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Re: Hafens barrier to entry

Postby overtyped » Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:14 pm

Kaios wrote:
overtyped wrote:
Aerona wrote:The maximum irony would be if the player using the flattening client loses a fight because they have no idea what's happening in an indirect ranged weapon engagement, or when a melee fight is going up or down a slope.


Did you hit your head?


a person at a higher elevation than their enemy would have an advantage whether it is a ranged or close combat fight.


No, you are living in a fantasy land, ranged doesn't really exist on land. They are good on boats, or sniping from the shore then fleeing into a boat. That's about it.
Your idea of elevation affecting melee would just be cancer. I think the whys are self explanatory if you think about it for a moment.
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Re: Hafens barrier to entry

Postby Kaios » Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:19 pm

What? I wasn't even suggesting an idea, I'm simply referencing common tactics that are utilized in real military strategy. If you're outnumbered or weaker than your opponent, would you rather fight in a flat, open field? Or would you rather fight in a rocky hillside? I think I know what I would pick, unfortunately I'm not too sure you would choose the same answer given your thought process.
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Re: Hafens barrier to entry

Postby gravesmerch » Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:35 pm

anyways, seems back in the day games would come with low polygon 3D models for low settings, but I think haven has always the same polygons, so an insect or a single crop always use the same GPU... however I heard the CPU usage is also a problem, not sure what kind of overhead exactly, but maybe that's why I cant watch much youtube when the game screen is packed... I also noticed animations seem to spike the bad performace, not sure about that, but when objects start animating you know your fps is going down
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Re: Hafens barrier to entry

Postby Ardennesss » Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:47 pm

maxeusz wrote:Can't we just fix that by the simple rule that the custom clients are either public (accessible for everyone) or prohibited and bannable?
This is already sorta an unwritten rule, Loftar has always preferred that clients being distributed have their source code available so the community can help detect bad actors. Private client devs argue they aren't 'distributing' but simply sharing it with their friends. Private client advantage is so important to some that you have to login with a client specific username/password to even use it. People are correct when they say the average player isn't playing the same game as people with private clients.
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Re: Hafens barrier to entry

Postby Miss_Min » Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:57 pm

Aerona wrote:This again... No, it's not a core part of the game, it's just an option in the mid-to-late game. Fighting other hearthlings is no more central than exploring every biome, leaving the continent, baking or steel-making. What are core parts of the game are eating, crafting, harvesting, and exploring at least your hearthling's local area. Most players will never have their hearthling fight another player's and are fine with that.


As a filthy casual larpy cutesy farmer with zero pvp skills or desire to be involved in pvp, I think you're wrong. I'm rubbish at combat because I can't co-ordinate keyboard and mouse fast enough to do anything useful. It's just not my thing. So I have no desire to learn any useful combat skills because I'm not going to have time to do anything useful with them anyway. And then I get jumped by FUCKING BOREWORMS and I can't even swing a weapon at the closest one because for whatever reason the combat is autoselecting idk, the one with the most stylish mask? So attempting to hit something results in me running uselessly back towards the only one I am actually capable of outrunning instead of the one that is RIGHT THERE.

A client that allowed me to use the keyboard to do relevant combat stuff while also, in my usual style, running the fuck away, would be really handy, and probably give me more incentive to actually get less bad at combat.
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