B12 vs Sword and board

[DoctorCookie]

Which is better given equal skills and stats in pvp, and is one better than the other in pve? Also, are the new claws a legit option? thx.

[tigerlrg245]

Iirc claws are weaker than knuckles so I don't think so, Sword is necessary for some pve because of sos, I think either works for pvp really, personal perference. probably b12 better by a bit

[NOOBY93]

Sword is necessary for some pve because of sos

full circle? can be used with b12 too

b12 is the rule, there are exceptions where sword can be used, just use a b12 and go full unarmed combat though

[tigerlrg245]

Sword is necessary for some pve because of sos

full circle? can be used with b12 too

b12 is the rule, there are exceptions where sword can be used, just use a b12 and go full unarmed combat though

And how do you get the opening for full circle to do any damage?
Of course you can have 1000 mc then the 5% red opening will be enough for slimes and what not, but if you don't have that much and are not in a group with a sword user..

[kill5link]

The B12 gives a 25% CD reduction, has the highest armor pen and the most damage.
If you fight to kill, then it's definitely the best for pvp.

A hirdman's allows you to wield a shield for a few lousy armor points.
The other big plus is that you get to use the Shield Up stance which is the best defensive stance.
So, arguably, MC is better defensively and allows you to AoE for pve with storm of swords(soloing beaver dungeon, cave slimes perhaps?).

Aside from those 2 situations, MC is generally just inferior.
E.g. quick barrage is a good MC move to build up red for 10%, 20 CD in terms of DPS, but that is assuming your target doesn't move.
Or you can use full circle for a 0 IP cost aoe to build up green on all enemies around you, then finish each with a little chop.
You can do stuff like that.
But the MC movepool is small and not as good as the UA one.

Not sure if it's intended this way, but half the MC moves are all the damage dealing moves in the game.
And you require 2 kinds of moves to do damage. Ones that create opportunity (of which MC is lacking) and ones that deal damage (of which UA has none).
This leads to UA being a better choice to increase opening, as MC weight is largely irrelevant for the damage you deal, especially if you get your enemy to 50-100% opening.

Also, there are moves that are good, yet are often not used because of the duplicate card limit of 30.
Less different moves in your combat deck = less duplicates needed.
This actually makes some moves that used to be crap very useful now (e.g. artful evasion).

However, I would argue that MC is largely obsolete if compared to UA. Simply because there are no good UA damage moves and (almost) no good MC opening moves.

[DDDsDD999]

The B12 gives a 25% CD reduction, has the highest armor pen and the most damage.
If you fight to kill, then it's definitely the best for pvp.

It's an INCREASED 25% CD, ie it makes your attacks slower.

A hirdman's allows you to wield a shield for a few lousy armor points.
The other big plus is that you get to use the Shield Up stance which is the best defensive stance.

Shield up is pretty garbage, it doesn't really do anything vs op knocks so it's kinda useless in group fights. I'd prefer UA maneuvers to shield up in a 1v1. Parry is pretty good though, it's really annoying trying to focus someone that has it without getting a ton of blue openings.

Quick barrage spam is almost impossible to beat if you have higher AGI than your opponent in a 1v1. Though if the stats are around even the enemy can just zig-zag away the red and he then has a UA maneuver that's fully charged.

---

MC is useful, but it's a little more situational than UA.

[DoctorCookie]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses, I actually learned more from reading your examples than any of the guides. Also thx for not calling me a noob and linking a guide.

So from what I gather if I have invested alot in MC then sword and board is the way to go because quick barrage/full circle/storm of swords/chop with parry as the defensive stance utilize the sword and are the only useful moves with MC. Am I getting it?

[Thedrah]

i'd use cleave too for a finisher. but thats against animals, in pvp i imagine it's more a battle of attrition and cleave has a longer cooldown than most (half cooldown of full circle) so it may leave you open to a bad enough counter

expect the worst and hope for the best. death or glory is an interesting combat stance (especially for pve) that i don't see talked about much but usually a blend of ua and mc is best as ua has many strong defensive maneuvers (oak stance is best for defense) and good openings while mc has the high damage stuff

bruce lee quote: “Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash into his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life! Do not be concerned with escaping safely- lay your life before him!!”

[IngloriouslyBad]

From everything I've read & learned, MC is absolute trash. It's unfortunate that it's irrelevant in 80% of situations. It doesn't make sense to me, and it doesn't make sense to people i've tried to get into the game and explain the combat system to.

[AntiBlitz]

have faith grasshopper, papa Jorbo will bless us shitty mc users one day.