FEP values changing each world?

[Nocturnal-Rainbows]

I've read a few off-hand comments over the past few months about food giving different FEP's each world.
At first, I thought people meant that jorb & loftar were like manually tweaking a few values here and there but the wording of some of those posts made it seem like every single natural food item (so not cooked recipes that you can make) gets its values randomized each world.

Is that true or am I completely misunderstanding what those posts are talking about?

[Dawidio123]

I've read a few off-hand comments over the past few months about food giving different FEP's each world.
At first, I thought people meant that jorb & loftar were like manually tweaking a few values here and there but the wording of some of those posts made it seem like every single natural food item (so not cooked recipes that you can make) gets its values randomized each world.

Is that true or am I completely misunderstanding what those posts are talking about?

Not every food. Not even every variable food.
For example sausage smoking is same as the last world and so are the fish iirc. But most recipes get randomized yes, autumn steaks, meat-in-jelly, etc.

Nobody knows how it'll be done for the next world as we are promised a food rebalance, so recipes might still get randomized ig? But if the fep/hunger ratios stay the same there won't be any op outliers in each recipe.

[SnuggleSnail]

They use some black box algorithm to generate FEP values of all foods, as there are hundreds of millions if not billions of combinations at this point, so it couldn't be done manually without it being extremely simple. Really bad system. Leads to dumb shit like hunting pelicans being a good use of it, but Jorbtar is very proud of it so it's not going away.

Not necessarily every world, and not necessarily every recipe, but usually vast swaths of recipes are changed between worlds for no discernible reason. Probably one overpowered outlier recipe is found, but they can't specifically change that one recipe, and therefore need to tweak the formula for all recipes of that type or some convoluted dumb shit

[vatas]

Smoke shed sausage/woodblock combinations randomize every world by design, it seems.

There are other changes applied at developer discretion. Fruits/nuts are often treated like a newb trap, but they used to be MUCH WORSE. Apples had 4% hunger (direct LEgacy port, back when hunger helped you not to starve to death.) Some world changed all of them to 0.5% at most, with many berries being only 0.1%.

World 15 changed some variable FEPs - at least "Fruitroast" to be much simpler - they now more or less add the same attribute as their ingredient gives (when eaten raw), compared to weirdness like cherry=STR and plum=AGI (both giving CHA when raw.)

[abt79]

this world they’re overhauling the entire fep system which means every recipe (probably) gets changed anyways

[SnuggleSnail]

The way I interpreted it the types of FEPs on foods aren't changing - just the FEPs to hunger ratio. I suspect that just means same FEPs as always, but very, very different hunger.

[vatas]

The way I interpreted it the types of FEPs on foods aren't changing - just the FEPs to hunger ratio. I suspect that just means same FEPs as always, but very, very different hunger.

Simply changing the hunger value would be a simple-ish change - didn't they already do that to various baked goods this world? Many were in a bad spot because they were implemented when tri-quality was still a thing (one of the three specifically, and only, reducing the hunger gained) and weren't changed as the monoquality was restored and food meta otherwise changed. They remained mostly relevant in (casual?) late game when people gained access to hq ovens and flour.

[SnuggleSnail]

Changing the hunger for a food type overall wouldn't rly be comparable if that's what you mean? Some meatpies give 500 feps, some give 8 feps - so the hunger:FEP ratio is still very variable.

The way I interpret what they're doing is there's 5 tiers of food with increasingly good FEP:hunger ratios. Say tier 3 food's ratio is 100:1, if a meatpie has 50 feps on it then it'll also have .5 hunger. If it has 500 feps on it then it'll have 5 hunger. The point is to make 'bad' foods not ruin your character by giving excessively bad hunger, and not let super OP foods like whale or pickled stuff make you able to ignore hunger.

I'm sure there will still be ways to optimize around it, like primarily eating +2 foods, not overfilling your bar much, not getting 'bad' stats, being autistic about symbel - but overall you should have to pay A LOT less attention to what you eat, and it'd be very hard for somebody who doesn't know what they're doing to ruin their character.

[vatas]

Changing the hunger for a food type overall wouldn't rly be comparable if that's what you mean? Some meatpies give 500 feps, some give 8 feps - so the hunger:FEP ratio is still very variable.

The way I interpret what they're doing is there's 5 tiers of food with increasingly good FEP:hunger ratios. Say tier 3 food's ratio is 100:1, if a meatpie has 50 feps on it then it'll also have .5 hunger. If it has 500 feps on it then it'll have 5 hunger. The point is to make 'bad' foods not ruin your character by giving excessively bad hunger, and not let super OP foods like whale or pickled stuff make you able to ignore hunger.

I'm sure there will still be ways to optimize around it, like primarily eating +2 foods, not overfilling your bar much, not getting 'bad' stats, being autistic about symbel - but overall you should have to pay A LOT less attention to what you eat, and it'd be very hard for somebody who doesn't know what they're doing to ruin their character.

Simple change as in "back-end fundamentals" that hopefully radiate to front-end. What you described though, sounds rather brilliant, actually.

Now we just need default client FEP calculation to not have a math quiz every time you want to eat something optimally. (There's zero feedback if the piece of food you just ate, only barely filled up your FEP bar, or twice over (with other half simply going to waste.)

[SnuggleSnail]

Ye, I feel like the ideal way to communicate that is just showing on the FEP bar in the character menu how much the food will give you when hovering it, EX:



I also feel like everybody should be advocating for how much hunger a food gives to be calculated when you eat it based on how many FEPs you actually gained, as opposed when it's made + symbel's hunger% reduction being removed + something be done with double FEPs to prevent them being twice as hunger efficient + variety bonus is probably going to be stinky + it's not clear if eating a 5 hunger food at 300% hunger will give more hunger than eating a 5 hunger food at 50% hunger, which could end up yucky.

I'm personally not going to complain too much before actually using the system, though. Pretty sure even if it's implemented in the worst way possible it'll be x100 better than what we have RN. This has been my biggest complaint about the game since they nerfed salt, so I'm p chuffed about it.