Why is steel/animal husbandry/cheese the way it is?

[ItsFunToLose]

Haven's mechanics weren't made with gameplay in mind. Any semblance of good gameplay is either a happy accident or the result of one of Snail's forum rants.

If you genuinely think the biggest brain autist condescendingly yelling at everyone for being shit and not having an army of alts, bots, and friends to play the game for you so you can spend every waking hour raiding children and the elderly for not understanding how every system interacts with every other system, extorting them for real money because they don't have 69 hours a day to keep up with the biggest factions who are cheesing and squeezing every last drop of number porn out of this self-flagellation sim, has ever once resulted in good gameplay, I can't really take you seriously ever again.

[Einlanser]

Haven's mechanics weren't made with gameplay in mind. Any semblance of good gameplay is either a happy accident or the result of one of Snail's forum rants.

If you genuinely think the biggest brain autist condescendingly yelling at everyone for being shit and not having an army of alts, bots, and friends to play the game for you so you can spend every waking hour raiding children and the elderly for not understanding how every system interacts with every other system, extorting them for real money because they don't have 69 hours a day to keep up with the biggest factions who are cheesing and squeezing every last drop of number porn out of this self-flagellation sim, has ever once resulted in good gameplay, I can't really take you seriously ever again.

What

[wonder-ass]

cope harder

[Audiosmurf]

Haven's mechanics weren't made with gameplay in mind. Any semblance of good gameplay is either a happy accident or the result of one of Snail's forum rants.

If you genuinely think the biggest brain autist condescendingly yelling at everyone for being shit and not having an army of alts, bots, and friends to play the game for you so you can spend every waking hour raiding children and the elderly for not understanding how every system interacts with every other system, extorting them for real money because they don't have 69 hours a day to keep up with the biggest factions who are cheesing and squeezing every last drop of number porn out of this self-flagellation sim, has ever once resulted in good gameplay, I can't really take you seriously ever again.

[telum12]

"EVERYONE NEEDS TO HAVE AN ARMY OF BOTS SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEECH" - Snail, surely

[aronatia]

Isn't the downside of being a hermit already present in things like lessened protection, not having help with gathering or building anything, etc? Playing by yourself is already harder by default, without making it excessively difficult to get materials on your own. Allowing you to put enough fuel in to finish the steelmaking in a single session wouldn't do anything but make you able to play without having to set an alarm to check your virtual metal.

Regarding the "just find someone to play with" logic, I have tried for years to get anyone I know in real life to play with me, and have had no success. When you're the only one in your circle of friends that doesn't have a child under 10, it's not very conducive to multiplayer gaming.

[whitehead1771]

Played a lot of legacy. Quit after hhp dmg with crimes. Started playing again w7ish couldn't get into it. Tried again w14. The most difficult thing I'm finding is Trade. Almost no one trades for craftable stuff, only rare localized resource node stuff. So economically this indicates that all things craftable are easy to come by. With a few acceptions, cast iron, pearls, glimmermoss, and hard/ annoying to acquire meats. I use what people are willing to buy as an indicator of what is valuable....which is an extension of what takes the most Time/effort to produce or procure. In a player driven economy there HAS TO BE stuff that that some are unwilling to make and other are, thereby creating the mechanism for trade. I am more than happy to make steel/ silk /cheese or whatever else people find tedious to trade it for the stuff i find difficult/tedious.

I do understand your point. When i make steel I do it on my weekend or schedule help with another villager. I typically plan my game play around RL not RL around my game. Silk is more difficult to plan than Steel FYI.

I'll end this with a question. What is more satisfying, Making something that requires very little effort or something that is difficult?

[jorb]

• Realism: They have vaguely realistic mechanics. E.g. animals need to be tended.
• What is the alternative? What types of good and well-designed challenges can we present that can serve to make resources valuable?

[WowGain]

• Realism: They have vaguely realistic mechanics. E.g. animals need to be tended.
• What is the alternative? What types of good and well-designed challenges can we present that can serve to make resources valuable?

tedium =/= challenge and if anything is its antithesis- unless the challenge you're looking for is presenting people that code bots the challenge of writing the script
steel still maintains plenty of value purely through the triple-refining process and 3-day timegate involved in producing it. removing the overdone cheese mechanic was one of your best changes this world and its philosophy should be copied to many other industries with similar mechanics.

[Sevenless]

• Realism: They have vaguely realistic mechanics. E.g. animals need to be tended.
• What is the alternative? What types of good and well-designed challenges can we present that can serve to make resources valuable?

tedium =/= challenge and if anything is its antithesis- unless the challenge you're looking for is presenting people that code bots the challenge of writing the script
steel still maintains plenty of value purely through the triple-refining process and 3-day timegate involved in producing it. removing the overdone cheese mechanic was one of your best changes this world and its philosophy should be copied to many other industries with similar mechanics.

But you didn't answer his question. What can we do to replace tedium while maintaining steel's resource value?

I've suggested "special coal" as an option, or at least making it so that steel crucibles require black coal to fuel instead of just sticks or charcoal. Realistically the same people would be producing it, namely established villages, but they'd be less annoyed about producing it. Someone argued that having steel Q depend on black coal lucky finds would be bad, but honestly that seems kinda par for the course on quality mechanics for mining so I don't know how important that is. Especially if the impact was minor, like 1/4 final quality.

That said, black coal becomes quite trivial to mine after early game. Long term steel would be extremely easy to produce.