So what do we do about trading?

[Aerocross]

What would be needed to make roads feasible?

1. A more comprehensive map system. Like any other construction, roads will require a fair bit of advance planning to actually be useful and efficiently built. This is not possible without the option to create larger maps that encompass an entire region.

2. Some level of security for both the people using the road and the road itself. Even if fast travel over long distances is convenient, no one is going to use roads if they have a high chance of getting you killed. Likewise, no one is going to bother with building roads in the first place if any random wannabe troll kid can vandalize them with impunity (since how does one claim the entire area covered by a long-distance road?).

3. The majority of the materials used to construct the road itself being plentiful and/or renewable. Since a long, well-maintained road is a powerful tool, I don't think anyone would complain if they required some reasonably valuable materials like steel or wrought iron at the starting point and ending point; the issue is if actually extending the road takes large amounts of non-renewable materials like stone. It might be less of a problem if you could at least lift and transport boulders.

[Bodomfreak]

I think the roads need some sort of 'claim' to make them feasible. Something to add cost to destroying or blocking them, maybe even track those responsible. Otherwise there is much risk and little reward to using them.

[DDDsDD999]

What would be needed to make roads feasible?

1. Make it so you don't have to play thread the needle when you're making the road with those god damn arrows. Trying to aim those things is a pain.

2. Make the segments cost less energy.

3. Some sort of claim system on them.

4. Make them go through gates that you have access to.

5. Make it so you can piggyback trails off of other road segments.

Would also be nice if people could only see the name of the road they've travelled along before. It's not that they can't walk along it, it'd just be nice if we could give trails meaningful names that don't compromise anything to passerbies. Right now I just give them really vulgar names and write down what they actually mean.

[Yasgur]

If someone destroys a signpost, does it ruin the entire road, or can it be replaced?

Are there permissions to allow others to expand off an endpoint? For example, if people did try to build a trading hub somewhere, each group or hermit could build their own road to the hub.

[Potjeh]

Roads are feasible IMO, but trade is unfeasible without *good* stalls.

[Sevenless]

What would be needed to make roads feasible?

There's still HHP or SHP loss for leaving scents in game? If so, roads should require vandalism and leave scents when destroyed. This would apply a cost for griefing them without making it impossible.

Beyond that there's a big issue with the whole road blockage for longer term travel. If your road is blocked, you're being dumped headfirst and blind into a potentially lethal situation. This is a pretty big problem with anything other than local road networks, bandits have all the power in this system and it's unpreventable/lethal if they get the jump on you.

I don't have an easy fix for the second problem. Bandits can block a road cheaply, but you're risking everything to travel. Trading alts would still be able to cross major highways, but nothing other than fully geared raiders will be willing to touch them otherwise. Perhaps a second road type is needed, one where waylaying travellers comes with a non-trivial cost. Maybe needing a special "road barricade" item set up to be able to block travel on it? This would make banditry not free, but at the same time travellers still have the issue that using roads makes you jump into a situation completely blind. This holds especially true since the combat system has been re-worked to make escaping combat more difficult than before (one way gates meaning you can't run into walls for safety, defense moves only being free movement wise if you're running at a target and not away).

And I agree with potjeh about trading. A stall that cannot be stolen from without breaking through a wall somehow is an absolute must to not realtime trading. A Storefront that can only be stolen from/reloaded with inventory from one side could stick out of a wall to allow trade without violating the haven concept of "if it's there, there's a way I can steal it".

[MrBunzy]

Honestly getting waylaid doesn't seem like it will be an issue to me. You can just send a naked alt down the road first to check for danger, the same as people did when taking old havens crossroads. I'm more worried about the cost of upkeep, as in its current state destroying roads seems like a great way to inconvenience your enemies, and there are some surprisingly dedicated griefers in this game. Perhaps a system could be implemented where it was easy to temporarily disable a road for a few hours or even a day, but permanently destroying them took more effort. High soak, or long lasting scents, or some annoying, grindy mechanic?

[venatorvenator]

What would be needed to make roads feasible?

Nothing. I suppose you'll have to wait and see how players handle them, and then change their mechanics accordingly.

Protecting roads with soak, black skills requirements, natural claims or anything of the sort will just turn them into a griefing tool. They are too cheap to have such requirements.

The only way I can think of for improving them is giving extra work for the destroyer - so the limitation would be time, and not strength or skills.
Maybe roads could only be destroyed by extreme terraforming around them, like deep holes or very high mounds. But honestly I don't think this would be the ideal solution.

[Sevenless]

Honestly getting waylaid doesn't seem like it will be an issue to me. You can just send a naked alt down the road first to check for danger

Mmm that's a good point, but that's a workaround from the player's point of view on the entire point of waylaying. If that became too prevalent I'd expect we start seeing something to counter it like AGI and travel weariness again.

[Shadow7168]

I'd say roads are feasible, as are caravans. In W3 I was a part of the World Traveling Caravan, we had lots of success, traveling first on the LC road network which was pretty big, and later through random wilderness, though we had the world map to help us avoid rivers and shit. Security is somewhat of a problem, you always need to stop for the day and put a claim/fence up. We did get robbed by dis once, but that's expected to happen, and that was only after like more than a month.

There's always a risk for trading, and I think it'll happen regardless of roads being safe. I mean heck, people still got ganked while idol trading in previous worlds. Atleast caravans would have more people to defend themselves.