Lord of Shadows & The Fellowship of the Kilns

Forum for discussing in game politics, village relations and matters of justice.

Re: Lord of Shadows & The Fellowship of the Kilns

Postby Amanda44 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:07 am

ApocalypsePlease wrote:I think he's saying that I have a good grasp on his perspective.
The forums usually tend to have one side of the conversation, I just raised my concerns about the things that weren't being said :)


I'm also really keen to hear what Zox has to say about it from his perspective, but still, what-ever reasons he may have had for killing someone, most players are aware that there may be repercussions from that action.
To then try and demand rl money from other players in order to prevent him taking any further measures against them simply negates any kind of understanding, reasoning or sympathy.
How can there be an excuse for that kind of behaviour ..... :?
Koru wrote:
It is like in Lord of the Flies, nobody controlls what is going on in the hearthlands, those weaker and with conscience are just fucked.
Avatar made by Jordan.
Animal lovers - Show us your pets! - viewtopic.php?f=40&t=44444#p577254
User avatar
Amanda44
 
Posts: 6485
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:13 pm

Re: Lord of Shadows & The Fellowship of the Kilns

Postby venatorvenator » Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:45 am

ApocalypsePlease wrote:Node scouting is the only thing that really makes sense. Without knowing what the forager was equipped with, there seems to be 2 possible reasonings for his actions based. If the forager was well equipped, zox could have suspected it to be a tracker trying to find him (assuming he already had scents out), and killed the forager without the foresight of the consequences it would bring. The alternative if the forager did not look well equipped, zox could have assumed that there would not have been any real consequence for leaving a muder scent that far out would be unlikely.


ApocalypsePlease wrote:This is what doesn't make sense to me. Why was there someone from your village foraging 4 hours worth of distance away from your place, let alone in the direction from your village towards zox?
If I was him, someone being two thirds of the way from their location to mine especially when that far out does not feel like it's coincidental. When you live out in the middle of nowhere, seeing anyone is a concern.

Make sense? Our village is called "Larp Central" on our map. I've been to two of the world's edges for no purpose at all. I don't need a reason to explore. You're making it sound like the killed player is at fault for not staying quietly in his village - or for dying, as you seem to consider Zox's decision to murder right and justifiable. Arguing that a 3-person village should have a two-hour radius free killzone territory "for safety" sounds wrong in many levels.

As for assuming, there are a few reasonable courses of action Zox could have taken, including saying "hello" or asking what he was doing there, instead of killing him and taking his gear.

Personally, judging from his chats, I think he was just trying to make large villages fight each other, then profit with the trade boost quietly in his hard-to-reach map border village.
Xcom wrote:Most good things last only a short time
venatorvenator
 
Posts: 1066
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:59 pm

Re: Lord of Shadows & The Fellowship of the Kilns

Postby ChildhoodObesity » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:26 am

Amanda44 wrote:I'm also really keen to hear what Zox has to say about it from his perspective, but still, what-ever reasons he may have had for killing someone, most players are aware that there may be repercussions from that action.

if i walked on screen and saw a well-geared character koed id laugh my ass off and wouldnt hesitate to kill him
User avatar
ChildhoodObesity
 
Posts: 4165
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:16 am

Re: Lord of Shadows & The Fellowship of the Kilns

Postby ApocalypsePlease » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:32 am

Amanda44 wrote:I'm also really keen to hear what Zox has to say about it from his perspective, but still, what-ever reasons he may have had for killing someone, most players are aware that there may be repercussions from that action.

I'm not saying there aren't reprecussions, he took a risk and it did not pay off. Now that this has all happened it's just a bit shameful to see all of this shunning after the event.
To then try and demand rl money from other players in order to prevent him taking any further measures against them simply negates any kind of understanding, reasoning or sympathy.
How can there be an excuse for that kind of behaviour ..... :?

Honestly, I think people have a bit too much at stake here to not be biased. He tried to resolve the conflict with an ultimatum (THIS IS NOT A STATEMENT REGARDING MY OPINION OF SAID ULTIMATUM), which was to resolve peacefully (consider this a regular trade at regular rates), or let the dispute be resolved through fighting. The other side took none of it and so that's that.

venatorvenator wrote:I don't need a reason to explore.

I agree, and this is not my point.
You're making it sound like the killed player is at fault for not staying quietly in his village

This is not what I'm trying to say, and this is not my point.
- or for dying,

Well, it is the foragers fault for allowing himself to be caught in this situation for two reasons: not noticing his pony power and getting knocked off, and for having so little SHP that he gets KO'd from this. It could be argued his chance of survival would be significantly higher if neither of these two occured.
as you seem to consider Zox's decision to murder right and justifiable.

You're missing my point. I am trying to create discussion to hopefully expand and underside his perspective in this, justified or not.
As a sidenote: this is Haven and Hearth, literally no action is unjustified (excluding bug abuse). While you're fighting for your side, he's fighting for his. He decided to do what he thought was best, and died because of it. These are facts, you can twist words either way to suppose one side is or is not justified.
Arguing that a 3-person village should have a two-hour radius free killzone territory "for safety" sounds wrong in many levels.

You're missing my point. Zox did what he wanted to, just as the forager did as he wanted to. Both players have agency over their actions and claiming one is right and the other is wrong defeats the purpose of the mechanics within the game.
As for assuming, there are a few reasonable courses of action Zox could have taken, including saying "hello" or asking what he was doing here, instead of killing him and taking his gear.

Comes down to agency. Zox had no duty to do anything and in the cold, cold game of Haven he did what many have done before: kill in cold blood.
Personally, judging from his chats, I think he was just trying to make large villages fight each other, then profit with the trade boost quietly in his hard-to-reach map border village.

Personally, I think he cares too little about the outcome of this and you guys care too much. He has had alterior motives, that should be clear. Ultimately he is still the one who managed to provide tangible purpose to his Haven & Hearth playtime, everyone else doesn't get that luxury. After having left this game for 3 years and coming back, the community feels a lot more bitter now, which is part of why I have avoided participating in many discussions.

The fact that you took everything I posted as an excuse or justifications for Zox' actions speaks very loudly to me. My purpose in my original post was an inquiry to gain more information about the situation. Just because I wasn't sided with your side does not mean I have any bias towards his side. If I chose not to post from his side and instead from everyone else' side, I would just perpetuate this dumb circlejerk.
Inactive
User avatar
ApocalypsePlease
 
Posts: 1164
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:52 am

Re: Lord of Shadows & The Fellowship of the Kilns

Postby MightySheep » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:42 am

Patchouli_Knowledge wrote:What he does in the game is separate from what he does on the forum. You can essentially grief everyone in the world by destroying a central trading spot for the entire world and still be OK on the forum (assuming you abide by the rules of course)

I've played many games with playerbase of this size, there are always fucktards with mod privs who do whatever they feel like, like Burg when he perm banned my alt which broke no rules at all.
User avatar
MightySheep
 
Posts: 2164
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:18 pm

Re: Lord of Shadows & The Fellowship of the Kilns

Postby Chebermech » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:10 am

Here's a little-long story from the Great Houses, which are usually not involved on official forums, but as most of the participants of the big conflicts know, involved in most of the wars and conflicts that's been recently happening. At the beginning of this world there were bunch of Russians, and zox was one of them. Russians wanted to play as one entity called Great Houses, but for one reason or another, including pay to play, some left the game, and due to a lack of party arrow in the first few days, zox got lost with his buddy dezmond, and been travelling into a different direction, later on they found out that they have a high quality clay and decided to form their own village separate from Great Houses, yet use our name as a form of a backup so that people would at least think who they would have to deal with if they would go after zox. Our LS didn't mind that at all, and in the beginning we were even helping zox by moving his clay to other people for him, that way nobody would know about his secret location, and even turned off map saving option in the client as he asked. Surprisingly enough for me we didn't get any clay from him for free as good butt-buddies i thought we were, the price was pretty high for it, not as high compared to 50$ or whatever he asked people, but lots of in-game effort been traded for his clay. We've invited zox on a raid against ainran, at the time he was selling his character + village for 200$, but he didn't want to risk his character asked one of our village members to use his account/character named Naga, which zox nearly drowned (had 35hhp left as it turned out, and still kept on going). After fail attempt at building crossroad blocks we went looking for another, more active, crossroad system, and someone showed up on a radar, being too close to the walls. The plan have changed to lure ainran out, instead they've sent out some alts which i took the liberty of killing and asking other participants not to get involved so that the scents would only lead to our village, and in hopes that ainran would come out since i had red hands now. But zox'es buddy dezmond didn't care much and wanted some newb blood, which got him scented for a week as well, which later he would have to spend at our village to keep scents away from the clay. During that zox'es friend been living in our curio house, and during that time 2x high q necro robes and occult rings would dissapear from time to time, and one time a day before his departure, we've noticed the ring on his fingers while he was offline, we've tried to contact and waited for couple of hours, then decided to knock him out and take INT gear out of him and leave with a couple of bruises - no big deal, in Russia we say 7 don't wait for 1, and people we a bit mad with him anyway, he didn't do or say jack during the week he spent with us, only ran around stuffing himself with daily lp. Turned out he only had 1 ring on himself he forgot to take off and some crap q necro, so we apologized for misunderstanding and said we would replace his armor but explained that it was his own fault anyway, would there be more contact with us, it wouldn't have happened. Zox got pissed off at first, and later it seemed like he found a reason, or pretended he did. He stopped asking for any help with his trades and raised up the price on his clay, im assuming it was when he started getting lots of cash out of his trades. Some time later during the raid at Rl'yeh we found what looked like a kiln made out of Zox'es clay, later he confirmed that he's been selling it to our enemies, after which we stopped communicating. Later on, not so far from now, ainran finds zox'es clay location and vandals the hell out of it, zox looks for jordan coles'es skype and stumbles upon a fake one, which happens to be our ally, and here is what he says:

(warning: retarded logic)
http://pastebin.com/af03DrM7

not sure how he came down to a conclusion we were involved in helping our enemies get top quality resource, but he didn't hesitate to bend over jcoles who just robbed him, in hopes to backstab us.

after reading that, and confirming the story was legit, he even pmed some of us asking who was the person pretending to be jcoles, it was only a matter of time he would contact the real coles and become ainran's b#%@h. We've never planned to take zox'es clay by force unless he would go against or backstab us, and that moment happened, even more so, it was now ainran's clay, and they were/are our enemies, and so here we are =). We found out there were more people pissed at zox, so we had enough people to camp the ram and have a backup if ainran would show. Oh yeah, and there wasn't any vacation, he just happened to be away for most of the day and was a bit careless when it all happened, there were even some warnings of what might happen to his clay spot on Russian forums, so gg. I think its for the best zox won't be around anymore, for both him and the game.
User avatar
Chebermech
 
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:23 am

Re: Lord of Shadows & The Fellowship of the Kilns

Postby rebornzox » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:30 am

Chebermech wrote:Here's a little-long story from the Great Houses, which are usually not involved on official forums, but as most of the participants of the big conflicts know, involved in most of the wars and conflicts that's been recently happening. At the beginning of this world there were bunch of Russians, and zox was one of them. Russians wanted to play as one entity called Great Houses, but for one reason or another, including pay to play, some left the game, and due to a lack of party arrow in the first few days, zox got lost with his buddy dezmond, and been travelling into a different direction, later on they found out that they have a high quality clay and decided to form their own village separate from Great Houses, yet use our name as a form of a backup so that people would at least think who they would have to deal with if they would go after zox. Our LS didn't mind that at all, and in the beginning we were even helping zox by moving his clay to other people for him, that way nobody would know about his secret location, and even turned off map saving option in the client as he asked. Surprisingly enough for me we didn't get any clay from him for free as good butt-buddies i thought we were, the price was pretty high for it, not as high compared to 50$ or whatever he asked people, but lots of in-game effort been traded for his clay. We've invited zox on a raid against ainran, at the time he was selling his character + village for 200$, but he didn't want to risk his character asked one of our village members to use his account/character named Naga, which zox nearly drowned (had 35hhp left as it turned out, and still kept on going). After fail attempt at building crossroad blocks we went looking for another, more active, crossroad system, and someone showed up on a radar, being too close to the walls. The plan have changed to lure ainran out, instead they've sent out some alts which i took the liberty of killing and asking other participants not to get involved so that the scents would only lead to our village, and in hopes that ainran would come out since i had red hands now. But zox'es buddy dezmond didn't care much and wanted some newb blood, which got him scented for a week as well, which later he would have to spend at our village to keep scents away from the clay. During that zox'es friend been living in our curio house, and during that time 2x high q necro robes and occult rings would dissapear from time to time, and one time a day before his departure, we've noticed the ring on his fingers while he was offline, we've tried to contact and waited for couple of hours, then decided to knock him out and take INT gear out of him and leave with a couple of bruises - no big deal, in Russia we say 7 don't wait for 1, and people we a bit mad with him anyway, he didn't do or say jack during the week he spent with us, only ran around stuffing himself with daily lp. Turned out he only had 1 ring on himself he forgot to take off and some crap q necro, so we apologized for misunderstanding and said we would replace his armor but explained that it was his own fault anyway, would there be more contact with us, it wouldn't have happened. Zox got pissed off at first, and later it seemed like he found a reason, or pretended he did. He stopped asking for any help with his trades and raised up the price on his clay, im assuming it was when he started getting lots of cash out of his trades. Some time later during the raid at Rl'yeh we found what looked like a kiln made out of Zox'es clay, later he confirmed that he's been selling it to our enemies, after which we stopped communicating. Later on, not so far from now, ainran finds zox'es clay location and vandals the hell out of it, zox looks for jordan coles'es skype and stumbles upon a fake one, which happens to be our ally, and here is what he says:

(warning: retarded logic)
http://pastebin.com/af03DrM7

not sure how he came down to a conclusion we were involved in helping our enemies get top quality resource, but he didn't hesitate to bend over jcoles who just robbed him, in hopes to backstab us.

after reading that, and confirming the story was legit, he even pmed some of us asking who was the person pretending to be jcoles, it was only a matter of time he would contact the real coles and become ainran's b#%@h. We've never planned to take zox'es clay by force unless he would go against or backstab us, and that moment happened, even more so, it was now ainran's clay, and they were/are our enemies, and so here we are =). We found out there were more people pissed at zox, so we had enough people to camp the ram and have a backup if ainran would show. Oh yeah, and there wasn't any vacation, he just happened to be away for most of the day and was a bit careless when it all happened, there were even some warnings of what might happen to his clay spot on Russian forums, so gg. I think its for the best zox won't be around anymore, for both him and the game.


Dirty&fake retelling, messed pastebin skype log's, i couldn't even imagine there's so much hate for these things i done. Adorable.

Im half way for my story, i've got a lot to tell about Great houses and Highgarden, stay tuned!
Zox
User avatar
rebornzox
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:31 pm

Re: Lord of Shadows & The Fellowship of the Kilns

Postby warrri » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:39 am

Oh boy, much to tell about highgarden. Pisdez nam.
The world I love The tears I drop To be part of The wave can't stop
Ever wonder if it's all for you
The world I love The trains I hop To be part of The wave can't stop
Come and tell me when it's time to
User avatar
warrri
 
Posts: 1033
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:55 pm

Re: Lord of Shadows & The Fellowship of the Kilns

Postby Chebermech » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:41 am

rebornzox wrote:Dirty&fake retelling, messed pastebin skype log's, i couldn't even imagine there's so much hate for these things i done. Adorable.

Im half way for my story, i've got a lot to tell about Great houses and Highgarden, stay tuned!


Holding our breath for Clean&real retelling, including your version of skype log if you claim this one to be fake. Nonetheless you did part with ainran who vandalized your clay, and you went against our alies in brodgar, so which part of pastebin is fake?
User avatar
Chebermech
 
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:23 am

Re: Lord of Shadows & The Fellowship of the Kilns

Postby rebornzox » Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:04 am

Chebermech wrote:
rebornzox wrote:Dirty&fake retelling, messed pastebin skype log's, i couldn't even imagine there's so much hate for these things i done. Adorable.

Im half way for my story, i've got a lot to tell about Great houses and Highgarden, stay tuned!


Holding our breath for Clean&real retelling, including your version of skype log if you claim this one to be fake. Nonetheless you did part with ainran who vandalized your clay, and you went against our alies in brodgar, so which part of pastebin is fake?


I noticed at least one message with broken context (skype quote copy issues), also, it wasn't me who bothered to create fake skype to take ingame opportunity, which side is open for dirty tricks?

(btw: I''ll give the clay coordinates if you're really good with english&russian, my purpose is telling the story as clean as i can)
Zox
User avatar
rebornzox
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:31 pm

PreviousNext

Return to The Moot

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Claude [Bot] and 0 guests