Attributes and eternity: More stats need "endless" uses

[Sevenless]

ctopolon3 wrote:
imo system is nice but need some finishing (
1.auto harvest from trellis (pepper)
2. drinks to all satiations (atm noone for game, nuts, poultry)
3. super food to each stat (like MBC=str Jorbanzola=int SS=charisma)
4. !!! more uses to each stat at late game (not only str agi con) !!!
5. fighters eats psy (not profit: kill alt with 500 str agi con & get 10q skull)
)

most problem is:
if u eat only str agi con U can get every thing u need (rare resources. good stuff from players killing. resources from siege to eat more str agi con)
if u eat any another stats u cant get everything w\o hard work & u not funplay/userfull after eat all stats above 200 (for example u need only 200int for best LP/hour)

Sevenless:

You speak to a deeper problem than just the stat system. In general, fighter abilities/attributes scale usefully to the infinite but most crafting stats don't. 1k UA? Great to have. 1k Carpentry? Are you an idiot? All the crafting stats have a capped usefulness because nothing they do is "relative to another player". Farming is capped to how high crops can possibly be since the start of the world, gilding stats max in usefulness at ~500 but people only really bother with cha and sewing based ones due to how the equipment setup works. I guess cha is useful to infinitely max for feasting, but most people do that on an alt anyway.

It's a really tough pickle to pry apart. I've been thinking for a while how to make infini grind for crafters worthwhile and haven't come up with anything useful. I think encouraging warriors to want Psy is pretty doable though.

ctopolon3 wrote:

mb if:
int - increase LP gain, chance rare craft (+3q) less chance shit craft (-3q)
cha - increase Quest reward, some buff for party
dex- increase work speed, increase block weight
will- increase healing, less magic cost
psy - increase EXP gain, better ancestor after death

mb in that case we will have less STRAGICON chars, & more crafters, or most balanced stats on fighters

[Sevenless]

Sorry for the gross formatting, I can't make it prettier while keeping it clear without bothering granger too much.

To continue the discussion thought:

Int:
Due to the increasing value of XP in general as a fuel for magic, I think it might make more sense to make int reduce the XP cost of your study instead. This way it doesn't muck with already pretty high compared to historical LP gains.

Cha:
Already has good long term uses. Teleportation and feasting buffs. If we just made it so that the maximum feast buff you can receive is based off your CHA and it stops calculating every table involved (just looks at your table and the table of the feast leader), CHA alts stop being nearly as important. And people raising their own CHA starts becoming more useful.

Dex
Faster work time? Interesting, not sure how much faster it can get due to convenience buff already being pretty high. Maybe it should reduce stamina drain? Not while running due to PvP implications, but during building activities (work smarter not harder!) perhaps. Building structures is nasty on the stamina use. Not sure this is good enough, not really in favour of expanding how many stats a combat char needs except as you mentioned Psy due to skulls.

Will
Why not make will involved in quest rewards instead of CHA? You're talking with spirits anyway. Less magic cost sounds good too.

Psy:
Sure and sure (if you mean better numen related activities). Not sure how to balance it though, not sure if that really encourages fighters to take it.

Edit: This applies to a number of crafter abilities while we're on the subject. I haven't managed to think of anything on that topic but lets brainstorm.

[Potjeh]

More like stats need an end.

[Sevenless]

More like stats need an end.

I guess it depends if you're an advocate of stat caps and eternal worlds (which we don't have proper content for, and have been struggling to find it for a long time as a community), or of no stat caps and continual rebirth. As of current I was aiming suggestions for the way the game is designed now rather than trying to suggest a more radical alteration.

But beyond all that... I genuinely don't like hitting my crafter stat caps. Haven is about eternal growth to me, and thinking "well time to eat junk food and just keep 3-4 curios running for village authority" doesn't feel good to me. I think it's important to keep these stats in check though. Given too much influence and any longer worlds will be utterly pointless to get involved in after the start.

[NOOBY93]

More like stats need an end.

yes... this... please...!!!1!!!

[ctopolon3]

1000str = run with mammoth \\good enought atm
1000agi = (need some profit to crafters) x2 craft speed for example \\good enought atm only for fighters
1000con = Unsinkable \\good enought atm
1000int = x2 LP gain \\ not need more than 200 atm
1000perc = MAKE ARCHERS GREAT AGAIN (400dmg vs 350armor & 1000hhp bullshit atm)
1000dex = x0.5 stamina drain, x2 block weight \\good enought atm only for crafters
1000cha = x2 attack weight for party, \\good enought atm , but can be also used in combat
1000will = x4 healing speed, x0.5 exp cost
1000psy = x2 EXP from events, 50% stats after descent (not 25%)


each stat should have combat effect, hermit effect, softcap effect

[Sevenless]

Why did we remove stat caps originally? They were tested and it apparently failed. Also... bit of a derail guys You're welcome to that opinion but is it suitable in this thread?

[Potjeh]

Stat caps didn't fail, they just exposed the "endgame" as the failure it is.

[qoonpooka]

I have always wondered why skills only softcapped you for craftings.

Current system:

Excellent Crafter + Good Material = Good Product.

Excellent Crafter + Excellent Material = Excellent Product.

Soldier-Trying-To-Pretend-He's-A-Crafter + Good Material = Garbage product (as it should.)

ST2PHAC + Excellent Material = Good product ?! (Smartmetals?)

Excellent Crafter + Garbage = Garbage.....

That last case bothers me. Skill should matter for an upside. Consider: Terrible clay thrown on a decent wheel and fired in a decent kiln will 'rescue' the low Q clay and produce a better product. If an unthinking slab of stone with a rope on it can do that, why shouldn't a thinking being?

Skills shouldn't just softcap hand and station-crafted goods, they should be considered 'tools & equipment' for purposes of quality. Low skill will still hurt, but high skill will let you continue the quality race to a point.

Farming, sawing boards, digging stuff up, mining, anything you don't touch (steel, smelting, etc) should be exempt from this. Even if you subject the upside to a more powerful diminishing return that's fine, little pips here and there still give crafters something to push for into the endless future. But given the same materials, a better crafter should produce better product.

The system I'd try is to have the geometric mean of crafter softcap and tool/processing station be used instead of Q of tool/processing station. This means that building new stations (which is purely material based anyway) is vitally important since the biggest gains will be there (skills+attr softcaps will outpace material Q basically immediately) and the further ahead your skills get, the harder that lower Q gear will pull on your impact.

[Sevenless]

That kinda goes with "too powerful" in my books though goon. That impact would be way too huge and would make the gap between factions and small villages too insane.