Steel making is pain in the ass.

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Steel making is pain in the ass.

Postby Mysia » Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:44 pm

Nightdawg wrote:
Mysia wrote:if you dont feel like scheduling your day around making minor gains then don't. its a fucking video game, lmao.

Steel is not a "minor gain", and some of us work and, check this out, *sleep* too.

Please read the following message, which I believe fits as the perfect reply to your argument:
Nightdawg wrote:- Not having time to log on a video game because you have a real life and you work is not the same thing as "lacking the skill" to achieve steel.
- Having to wake up in the middle of the night to click your mouse 6 times in a video game is not "requiring high-level of skill" to achieve something in a video game.
- Having a video game forcefully decide your daily schedule isn't a thing that attracts more players to said video game. It is a video game after all, not a job or even second life as some of the local autists religiously live up to.
- Forcing people to team up with players from other time zones and saying it's a valid argument against my first 3 arguments isn't valid. I should decide who MY friends are, based on MY OWN expectations from other people, and the time zone should not be a mandatory factor.

Inb4 loftar tells you to set up a bot to do it, or play in a 40-man village that will always have someone available to handle the pointless tedium. This is tedium. Setting an alarm on my phone is not "skill". Handling tedium is not "skill".


The best way to fix this would be to just make fuel run out after 24 hours. Many games use time as a price to achieve some things. Adding extra pointless tedium to it like forcing players to relog every 7.5 hours is just stupid tbh...


what do you need steel for? weapons, armour, all of which have substitutes. brick wall? not necessary. minor gains. As well, there is no limit to how much steel can be made in one go, you can make 100 steel in one go you just need to set up the scheduling. If you can't sleep for less than 12h for a 2-3 day period then maybe you should see your doctor.

I don't know if you play any other video games, but many others have things like hmm, battle pass. Where content is locked by both extraordinary play time and goals in a limited time period and often spending real money. These kinds of barriers make steel making look like a fucking joke. It's not challenging, as is. If anything it should be made more difficult, IMO. But the timer being changed to -- what? ive seen some decent ideas. something that creates difficulty in a different manner would be fine

also do not confuse difficulty with skill.


a simple example, was when I played a mobile game. Every sever had around 1k players, with factions of 30 players each. Every weekend there would be a war lasting 3 days where the factions would battle it out. In order to stay on top of the scoreboard you had to be warring 24/7. With 30 people in 8v8 matches. As such, some of the more dedicated players (mostly middle aged women) would stay up literally 48+ hrs straight sometimes just to keep the faction going. As well they would be spending around 100-200$ a weekend on supplies in the game from the store, but that is what it took to be the dominant faction.
Now the game was fucking awful, and a scam, but the point is the majority of players did not do this, because they did not have to. You only did it if you wanted to be the best. You don't need steel, if you want it you need to put the effort forward. It's quite honestly, easy. And I have no issue with it, but if they change it then fuck it ill pump steel 24/7
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Re: Steel making is pain in the ass.

Postby Nightdawg » Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:26 pm

Mysia wrote:
what do you need steel for? weapons, armour, all of which have substitutes. brick wall? not necessary. minor gains. As well, there is no limit to how much steel can be made in one go, you can make 100 steel in one go you just need to set up the scheduling. If you can't sleep for less than 12h for a 2-3 day period then maybe you should see your doctor.

I don't know if you play any other video games, but many others have things like hmm, battle pass. Where content is locked by both extraordinary play time and goals in a limited time period and often spending real money. These kinds of barriers make steel making look like a fucking joke. It's not challenging, as is. If anything it should be made more difficult, IMO. But the timer being changed to -- what? ive seen some decent ideas. something that creates difficulty in a different manner would be fine

also do not confuse difficulty with skill.


a simple example, was when I played a mobile game. Every sever had around 1k players, with factions of 30 players each. Every weekend there would be a war lasting 3 days where the factions would battle it out. In order to stay on top of the scoreboard you had to be warring 24/7. With 30 people in 8v8 matches. As such, some of the more dedicated players (mostly middle aged women) would stay up literally 48+ hrs straight sometimes just to keep the faction going. As well they would be spending around 100-200$ a weekend on supplies in the game from the store, but that is what it took to be the dominant faction.
Now the game was fucking awful, and a scam, but the point is the majority of players did not do this, because they did not have to. You only did it if you wanted to be the best. You don't need steel, if you want it you need to put the effort forward. It's quite honestly, easy. And I have no issue with it, but if they change it then fuck it ill pump steel 24/7


You can substitute a machine gun with a stone, but that doesn't make the stone a viable fire arm unless the enemy chooses to use stones too. But your enemy is 15 years old and doesn't have to work, and probably doesn't bother/care to get bitches too much at their age either, so they have enough time to set alarms in the middle of the night and spend 3 days inside the house to get the machine gun. It doesn't matter if you're at the skill level of a marine with 20 years experience in firearms, you still have a stone and your enemy has a machine gun. (This is an analogy btw)

Also, don't act like skill and difficulty have no relation whatsoever.
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Regarding the mobile game you described:
A video game deciding your schedule to this retarded level is neither difficulty or skill related, but rather obnoxious. If you decide to play something like that (+ the fact that it requires 100-200$ per weekend), is a *you* problem. In hafen we have the freedom and possibility of suggesting improvements to the game, while your stupid mobile game is just a cash grab.
Don't compare hafen to some trash mobile game pls. Having to pay 200$ is not something related to difficulty or skill lmao.
If your options are to either pay 200$ to instantly get something or grind for 3 months, *in a pvp game*, we all know what the point of that game is. Unlike those piece of shit games, jorb and loftar are clearly proving that the point of hafen isn't their wallets, otherwise we'd be playing World 14 right now, with the usual gold subscribers just throwing another couple of hundreds at them for one more year.


This thread is just another example of a good suggestion that turned into competent players trying to argue against orangutans who've been playing this game for 8+ years but somehow never reached the end game. How you compare boar spears and bronze swords to B12s is beyond me.
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Re: Steel making is pain in the ass.

Postby DonVelD » Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:41 pm

>plays since 2012
>"steel isn't necessary to win the game you can do just fine without it"
lmao it's like the 100th military grade retard proving the stereotype, just go back to legacy already or something
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Re: Steel making is pain in the ass.

Postby SnuggleSnail » Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:13 am

That $200/week scheduling his life around a mobile phone game guy rly got me thonking, TBH.

Some of my fondest memories and best friendships in haven revolved around absolutely autistic shit. Staying up with the bois for 72 hours to siege Sveta, leaving with Bleh halfway through to fuck up Helga and then coming back. 20 people showing up to our village every day to fight, people trying to siege us, figuring out what bugs our enemies are using, infiltrating enemy realms, getting zerged by Korea then sieging all of their villages, hell even killing my first neighbor and getting stuck in his village because I didn't understand visitor. Top shit.

The emergent adversarial relationships/challenges haven provides are the /only/ good thing about haven as far as I'm concerned, and they're good enough on their own to make it my favorite game by far. Him comparing the amazing feeling moments I've had with my friends overcoming genuine challenges with risk to just mindlessly scheduling his life around something is so fucking sad... That's some internet addiction shit. I would brag about staying up for 3 days to siege a faction village, but I would be embarrassed to admit I set alarms and wake up early to fuel steel.
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Re: Steel making is pain in the ass.

Postby WowGain » Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:30 pm

a constant reminder that sprucecaps deserve literally everything they get
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Re: Steel making is pain in the ass.

Postby Mysia » Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:37 pm

more like literally everybody who isnt a noob has a dhelm and b12, it's not hard to get the best gear in the game. its not hard to get the best anything. the game is easy as fuck, there is pretty much no skill barrier since the controls are so easy, the only difficulty comes from things like grind/scheduling.
if you just bot the game you literally should not even have an opinion and should be banned, first of all. This is coming from someone who actually plays the game, make it harder, please. Right now look how easy it is to be a "top player".

if you don't like the game, don't play it. But I think you need to take a step back and ask yourself what you really want out of the game, because it will never be an adequate substitute for whatever you're lacking. All you can hope for is to be continually engaged. I can say that I'm pretty sure these people got more play time out of the shitty mobile game than most people get out of hafen. The content was shit, gameplay was worse, and yet people dedicated all day everyday for 10+ years. Is it sad? Or are we just looking for something to keep us going? You really want it to be easier? I don't know, just seems like you're all clueless as to what you really want and can just simply agree that you don't like having to wake up every 12hrs to fill a crucible. Which if you ever, I don't know, had a job, or any kids, or any responsibilities of any sort you would realize how fucking easy a taskt this is, but whatever. keep crying until you get your farmville

also ive been playing since long before 2012 ^.^
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Re: Steel making is pain in the ass.

Postby noindyfikator » Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:52 pm

Mysia wrote:more like literally everybody who isnt a noob has a dhelm and b12, it's not hard to get the best gear in the game. its not hard to get the best anything. the game is easy as fuck, there is pretty much no skill barrier since the controls are so easy, the only difficulty comes from things like grind/scheduling.
if you just bot the game you literally should not even have an opinion and should be banned, first of all. This is coming from someone who actually plays the game, make it harder, please. Right now look how easy it is to be a "top player".

if you don't like the game, don't play it. But I think you need to take a step back and ask yourself what you really want out of the game, because it will never be an adequate substitute for whatever you're lacking. All you can hope for is to be continually engaged. I can say that I'm pretty sure these people got more play time out of the shitty mobile game than most people get out of hafen. The content was shit, gameplay was worse, and yet people dedicated all day everyday for 10+ years. Is it sad? Or are we just looking for something to keep us going? You really want it to be easier? I don't know, just seems like you're all clueless as to what you really want and can just simply agree that you don't like having to wake up every 12hrs to fill a crucible. Which if you ever, I don't know, had a job, or any kids, or any responsibilities of any sort you would realize how fucking easy a taskt this is, but whatever. keep crying until you get your farmville

also ive been playing since long before 2012 ^.^


u are so stupid
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Re: Steel making is pain in the ass.

Postby Mysia » Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:52 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote:That $200/week scheduling his life around a mobile phone game guy rly got me thonking, TBH.

Some of my fondest memories and best friendships in haven revolved around absolutely autistic shit. Staying up with the bois for 72 hours to siege Sveta, leaving with Bleh halfway through to fuck up Helga and then coming back. 20 people showing up to our village every day to fight, people trying to siege us, figuring out what bugs our enemies are using, infiltrating enemy realms, getting zerged by Korea then sieging all of their villages, hell even killing my first neighbor and getting stuck in his village because I didn't understand visitor. Top shit.

The emergent adversarial relationships/challenges haven provides are the /only/ good thing about haven as far as I'm concerned, and they're good enough on their own to make it my favorite game by far. Him comparing the amazing feeling moments I've had with my friends overcoming genuine challenges with risk to just mindlessly scheduling his life around something is so fucking sad... That's some internet addiction shit. I would brag about staying up for 3 days to siege a faction village, but I would be embarrassed to admit I set alarms and wake up early to fuel steel.


i set alarms to get up early for work,
catch the sunrise,
get the to store as soon as it opens,
fill my crucibles
and a million fucking other things that are important to me, im not embarrassed of any.

i would be embarrassed if i was so lazy/incompetent i couldnt spare 10 minutes every 12 hours though (if i chose it was important to me ) xD

the one thing i noticed about the mobile game, which was very low skill mostly grind difficulty like hafen -- was that the Ex-Military people excelled. They were always consistent, everyday doing their dailies, grinding the special events, stockpiling. They always had a schedule, and were on top of it. As such, they may not be the best player, but after 6 months, or a year, they are so much farther ahead than everybody else because they have put in the work consistently every fucking day. Granted they are mostly retired with pensions and nothing to do all day -- but they need that grind to stay engaged in the game. Other people, they dont do it because they dont have to. but there has to be some difficult incentives. The fact that you can just trade steel is like a dead give away for me. I'm suprised a neckbeard like you is against this kind of timer.
That is more challenging then just being 16 years old and have faster processing speed and motor skills then someone older than you. As far as skill based video games are concerned as well, its just a different kind of challenge. My main disagrement is with people wanting all content of the game to be easily accesible like really
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Re: Steel making is pain in the ass.

Postby Clemins » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:31 pm

Mysia wrote:
SnuggleSnail wrote:That $200/week scheduling his life around a mobile phone game guy rly got me thonking, TBH.

Some of my fondest memories and best friendships in haven revolved around absolutely autistic shit. Staying up with the bois for 72 hours to siege Sveta, leaving with Bleh halfway through to fuck up Helga and then coming back. 20 people showing up to our village every day to fight, people trying to siege us, figuring out what bugs our enemies are using, infiltrating enemy realms, getting zerged by Korea then sieging all of their villages, hell even killing my first neighbor and getting stuck in his village because I didn't understand visitor. Top shit.

The emergent adversarial relationships/challenges haven provides are the /only/ good thing about haven as far as I'm concerned, and they're good enough on their own to make it my favorite game by far. Him comparing the amazing feeling moments I've had with my friends overcoming genuine challenges with risk to just mindlessly scheduling his life around something is so fucking sad... That's some internet addiction shit. I would brag about staying up for 3 days to siege a faction village, but I would be embarrassed to admit I set alarms and wake up early to fuel steel.


i set alarms to get up early for work,
catch the sunrise,
get the to store as soon as it opens,
fill my crucibles
and a million fucking other things that are important to me, im not embarrassed of any.

i would be embarrassed if i was so lazy/incompetent i couldnt spare 10 minutes every 12 hours though (if i chose it was important to me ) xD

the one thing i noticed about the mobile game, which was very low skill mostly grind difficulty like hafen -- was that the Ex-Military people excelled. They were always consistent, everyday doing their dailies, grinding the special events, stockpiling. They always had a schedule, and were on top of it. As such, they may not be the best player, but after 6 months, or a year, they are so much farther ahead than everybody else because they have put in the work consistently every fucking day. Granted they are mostly retired with pensions and nothing to do all day -- but they need that grind to stay engaged in the game. Other people, they dont do it because they dont have to. but there has to be some difficult incentives. The fact that you can just trade steel is like a dead give away for me. I'm suprised a neckbeard like you is against this kind of timer.
That is more challenging then just being 16 years old and have faster processing speed and motor skills then someone older than you. As far as skill based video games are concerned as well, its just a different kind of challenge. My main disagrement is with people wanting all content of the game to be easily accesible like really


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Re: Steel making is pain in the ass.

Postby Zentetsuken » Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:24 pm

remove steel
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