PVP

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

PVP

Postby Thistle23 » Tue Feb 20, 2024 10:37 pm

So, killing people while wearing a pair of bunny slippers, is hilarious. I think if you want to put the time in the game you should be able to really own someone that's new. Knocking a spruce out will incentivize them to learn how to fight. I think the problem may just be the griefing, so why not just give the attacker a little warning that the combat they are partaking in isn't challenging or honorable and give them a movement debuff for a few days if they decide to take the unfair fight? That way someone can't just go hunting spruce caps and alienating new players all day long, nothing would change in fights against worthy opponents. If you want to hunt spruce caps all day, by all means make an alt that is more near to their level and then when you fight them they will have more than 3 seconds to actually try to put up a fight, and they might learn something other than just how to die.
Thistle23
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:07 pm

Re: PVP

Postby Clemins » Wed Feb 21, 2024 2:46 am

The developers cover this here; please read the following:

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=44710

Edit: Also, I can see this being abused not only in the same way the devs mention in the link above, but also because this would incentivize purposefully fighting other pvpers with "under-stated" alts in order to meme them with whatever vague debuff you're talking about. You seem to understand that pvp exists beyond griefing sprucecaps, which is more than most people. It's important to consider how this would effect that aspect as well.
User avatar
Clemins
 
Posts: 398
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:33 am
Location: Omicron Persei VIII

Re: PVP

Postby Thistle23 » Wed Feb 21, 2024 1:31 pm

So just make it if the weaker player uses any attacks no penalty is applied. they wanted the fight therefore no debuff. you attack someone, you get a warning if they are under leveled. if you chase them and they run away not fighting, then you get the debuff if you continue and KO them. Make the debuff only apply if the attacker continues to decide to attack the lower leveled player. Yes i understand that Haven is meant to be like real life, but don't you get a debuff for stealing and can't hearth? if i go upstairs and steal a cookie irl, i don't get a debuff. I love going outside the pallisade and risking it all, thingwalls are super exciting. I think that if you make it where the higher level aggressor is the one that decides to continue and take the debuff, then it's their choice. As far as being vague, why not give them a dishonorable, or guilty conscience tag and just make it so they can't use speed 4 for a set amount of time. I like permadeath, I like pvp, but if i kick a puppy i'm gonna feel bad and mope around. Just an idea, and tossing around ideas is another thing i think is great about haven. Just because something may be abused, does not mean it can't be refined to something that would work and improve things.
Thistle23
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:07 pm

Re: PVP

Postby DonVelD » Wed Feb 21, 2024 3:19 pm

No. You thought of a bad system from the start and now you're trying to fix it. Think of a fun system that doesn't need fixing right away, instead of doing a sunk cost kinda deal.

Inb4: "you didnt explain why its bad" even if the understatted characters dont aggro they need to be attacked because they: can support fighters with boats, bodyblock, pick up speedbuffs etc.
ImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImage
JOIN THE OFFICIAL H&H DISCORD TODAY
User avatar
DonVelD
 
Posts: 1013
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:37 pm
Location: @ your fenced base W/ a boar

Re: PVP

Postby Thistle23 » Wed Feb 21, 2024 11:43 pm

yeah, you're probably right. new ideas from newer players are probably all bad, unless they come perfectly formed from the beginning, with no input from anyone. i'd just like to play with more people for a longer time, i don't think it was a bad idea, and it doesn't look like any of the veteran players are coming up with anything but "game dead reset plox". there's certainly not much constructive criticism, so let's not change anything at all lol. it's fun playing with all you autistic bastards. mwah
Thistle23
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:07 pm

Re: PVP

Postby abt79 » Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:14 am

new players can give useful feedback but have a much less sophisticated understanding of pvp systems than those with hundreds of hours of experience, or even than the devs.

This thread and every copium (e.g. calling my Bad Idea bad means you want no changes whatsoever, blah blah etc) you've made within has been plopped onto the forums several times over the past two decades. You haven't thought through why this idea is bad and jorb understood why in 2009. Unironically read the forums (you might learn something!) before you start shitting them up.


Haven is - and intends above all to be - a competitive game that gives players a great deal of freedom in how they use the competitive advantages they accrue. Git gud or try another game if you'd rather not be beholden to the often unkind whims of more powerful players.
User avatar
abt79
 
Posts: 1481
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:59 am
Location: looking for black coal, completely in vein

Re: PVP

Postby Clemins » Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:17 am

This is not just some "veteran status quo", the truth of the matter is that Haven has a lot of problems that are actually very hard to effectively solve. The developers are wishy-washy and, unfortunately, do not really understand their own game (per their own admission, even.) Not to mention, it's hard to give constructive criticism to an idea that doesn't understand at least some of the ramifications. Honestly, and I'm not trying to be a jerk here, it's just frustrating to have a constructive conversation about, quite frankly, anything if you're more focused on a particular outcome rather than an idea focused on effectively touching on the broader issue.

The topic of PVP comes up a lot here and don't get me wrong, I get it. Haven has a weird as hell combat system and balancing mechanics. Contrary to what you think, a lot of "veterans" don't really like the combat system, but in it's current state, it arguably "works." The main issue with addressing PVP is just how thin that line is. I get that your focus is on how it effects the new and more casual playerbase, but you can't effect one without effecting the other. The current system certainly has issues that should probably be addressed, but that's in regard to the actual system itself, rather than an attempt to create a ruleset to control human nature.

If that's the ultimate goal, believe me, it's not going to work.
User avatar
Clemins
 
Posts: 398
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:33 am
Location: Omicron Persei VIII

Re: PVP

Postby DonVelD » Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:38 pm

Thistle23 wrote:yeah, you're probably right. new ideas from newer players are probably all bad, unless they come perfectly formed from the beginning, with no input from anyone. i'd just like to play with more people for a longer time, i don't think it was a bad idea, and it doesn't look like any of the veteran players are coming up with anything but "game dead reset plox". there's certainly not much constructive criticism, so let's not change anything at all lol. it's fun playing with all you autistic bastards. mwah

stop being retarded i literally explained which, at this point is generous cause i talked to 100 people like you already and came to the same conclusion, besides, any changes that could be good were posted in the past but they didnt give a shit about implementing them, and anything that was objectively bad pvp wise got introduced and everyone disliked it, so i say if it aint broke dont fix it
ImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImage
JOIN THE OFFICIAL H&H DISCORD TODAY
User avatar
DonVelD
 
Posts: 1013
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:37 pm
Location: @ your fenced base W/ a boar

Re: PVP

Postby Massa » Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:04 pm

nothing solves a problem like 5000 obscure if/and/or conditions built your into code
ImageImage
ass blast USA
User avatar
Massa
 
Posts: 1479
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:58 am
Location: the hams

Re: PVP

Postby eliminator » Sat Feb 24, 2024 12:36 am

combat bad and stale = pvp bad. feels like cbt. movement is bad.
needs total overhaul
need proper supporters beyond body blockers
need buffs and debuffs, status effects.
no rng cancer like with bunny slippers, must require actual skill.
speed boost should be a characters ability.
thats all
User avatar
eliminator
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:42 pm


Return to Critique & Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yandex [Bot] and 5 guests