Some proposed Outlaw changes +

[Archiplex]

Echoing the idea that crime seems largely without punishment, and ignoring that often fighting back is useless- there's some parts to the crime system I'm not a fan of.

Firstly - committing crimes against those who have committed crimes against you is, likewise, a crime. This has some really weird situations where buying crime skills is mandatory not just to fight others, but also to just reasonably defend yourself. On a claim with 3 of your allies, 2 of which are sprucies and someone comes up and combats with one of you? Unless you're the claim owner, you can't even attack them as a group. Yeah sure your sprucies probably won't contribute much, but it's a weird feeling to not even be able to try and defend your village.

Worse yet - the enemy downs one of your spruces, and you down him - now you're red-handed and outlawed. Even defending yourself in a public environment puts risk on you as you'll have to deal with the consequences of downing someone even on the unlikely situation you can defend yourself against your aggressor. Or the classic "send alts nearly dead to the enemy so they get stuck with a murder scent on a weak hit". All of it is pretty silly and pretty much makes sure i will never even try to defend myself and just focus on escape from one of the many other methods - and hell, if they get away and you want to chase them back, you'll need to deal with all the same nonsense. And let's say I get knocked out, my stuff stolen, and another friend fights them - now even getting my old stuff is a crime! It's silly, especially as someone who prefers being scentless.

I'd like to propose a few things:

1. While outlawed (or maybe, only while red-handed?) crimes cannot be committed against you. Knocking you out, stealing from you and similar simply leaves no scents and does not in turn cause others to become outlawed either. If you commit a crime, you should accept the possibility of retribution inherently.

2. While red-handed, not only does the above apply, but also aggressors do not even need crime-skills to perform crimes on you. Anyone can attack you in the 1 hour timespan of being red-handed, with or without rage. Anyone can steal from your person without theft, etc. Obviously none of this applies to claim-wide protections.

The idea being that, maybe if players were not punished as severely for fighting back, maybe more people would do it - that, and I should be able to defend myself or my village without needing to buy rage or murder.

Naturally, my perspective on this comes from small skirmishes and similar, and this arguably should not make a huge difference to most factions or villages, but I'm curious if this would evolve/change faction and large-scale pvp at all - I'll defer to people with more experience with that to chip in on whether its obtrusive or not.

And, a third mildly related suggestion:
3. Similar to 'evict' when someone is visitor, you should have the option to 'warn' someone who is not visitor, in which they have 1 minute to leave the claim or vclaim (aka, hearthing home.) If they don't leave by the end of this period, any crimes committed against them does not count as a crime, leaves no scent and does not require crime skills. Attacking them before this period is over would negate the effect. Presumably it would last until they leave your claim. This is an option for forcing people off your land without, well, being punished for it - and could be a solution for dealing with naked alts being sent to scout and force murder scents and similar. I should be able to do something about people stalking me to see when I'm online with naked alts, especially if my claim is big enough - but the warning period feels necessary to prevent abuse against people for merely walking onto your land.

[widelec_szatana]

The idea being that, maybe if players were not punished as severely for fighting back, maybe more people would do it - that, and I should be able to defend myself or my village without needing to buy rage or murder.

Red handed for half an hour, no logout for a day or two, wow big punishment. Lets say a spruce retaliates, what then? he gets KO's again xD
You can attack others when they are on yours\"friendly" claim without rage.

[Archiplex]

The idea being that, maybe if players were not punished as severely for fighting back, maybe more people would do it - that, and I should be able to defend myself or my village without needing to buy rage or murder.

Red handed for half an hour, no logout for a day or two, wow big punishment. Lets say a spruce retaliates, what then? he gets KO's again xD
You can attack others when they are on yours\"friendly" claim without rage.

If you are on a claim, yes. That's not always the case and it means buying Rage is, indeed, a necessary cost to defending yourself and others usually. Otherwise running into someone in the wild and having your friend get attacked means you can't even attack them back in return - and it means being punished even if you somehow win against the odds. Arguably assault should also trigger red-handed, too.

Regardless of whether your average sprucie would win this fight isn't really relevant anyways. At least give them the option to have the fight without investing a serious sum of LP (often, far more punishing for them to invest than a non-sprucie.)

[HingleMcCringle17]

The issues with all of this is how is the aggressor determined? Is it the one who initates combat? What if you are griefed by alts or bots, and they playing the old "I'm bit touching you!" Game but they are all up in your business. Some time to be defensive you must strike the first blow.

[Archiplex]

The issues with all of this is how is the aggressor determined? Is it the one who initates combat? What if you are griefed by alts or bots, and they playing the old "I'm bit touching you!" Game but they are all up in your business. Some time to be defensive you must strike the first blow.

Doesn't really seem an issue here? Aggressor is simply whoever does the first crime. If you're on your land, then you have no reason to want to attack first, and assault is already scent-free (just not battery, etc.). This is also why I wanted some sort of system to allow a player to outright steal/kill people who stay on their land after being told to leave, as well.

In the wild, the only thing that matters is that you aren't the first to attack other players. If others attack you first, they'll red-hand/outlaw after knocking you out (although imo assault should be enough to red-hand for a very small duration and outlaw for a duration similar to theft.) There's no need for any system to determine the aggressor with what currently exists as it is.

[SnuggleSnail]

Didn't read it but -1 bad idea

[Archiplex]

Didn't read it but -1 bad idea

dang i was actually hoping for ur opinion in particular

here give me another try i really put my soul into rewriting this one

Proposed Improvements:

Outlaw Protection: Crimes do not leave scents against players marked as outlaws, reducing penalties for defending themselves.

Easier Retaliation: Allow any player to act against red-handed players without needing crime skills for one hour after the offense.

“Warn” Feature: Add a one-minute warning option for claim owners to remove intruders without penalty/scents if they don’t leave.

i rlly should just chatgpt all my posts lol

[SnuggleSnail]

I FEEL like your suggestion stems from an earnest 'protect the nabs' mindset, but honestly anybody who can successfully take advantage of this stuff probably won't be harmless hermits.

• More complicated features most people probably won't understand seems bad
• It would make chasing people down in even fights a bit harder in certain situations
• People who give a shit about leaving scents are probably not capable of fighting? I think?
• Would make no significant change to how I play the game
• Warn just seems like evict again?
• You can already aggro/KO off of Pclaims without leaving a scent without rage, and it's probably better you can't do that with Vclaims (my W11 village had 2,000 banners)

[sMartins]

Proposed Improvements:

Outlaw Protection: Crimes do not leave scents against players marked as outlaws, reducing penalties for defending themselves.

Easier Retaliation: Allow any player to act against red-handed players without needing crime skills for one hour after the offense.

“Warn” Feature: Add a one-minute warning option for claim owners to remove intruders without penalty/scents if they don’t leave.

I like it and I don't see any terrible drawbacks

[yuuya331]

-1
I've seen this kind of thing countless times, but it seems like some players are unaware of the malicious use of alts and bots. In a previous world, someone built an outpost right outside a village. However, destroying these workers (mostly alts) or the outpost would brand you as an outlaw, so the system doesn't really work.

Crime & Punishment: Holmgang is a good example of this, but honestly, there are just too many clueless players, lol.