Openness to CC & Movement Speed buffs/debuffs

[Crest]

This is it. This is the boldest suggestion this game has ever seen. Rest assured, I know the implications of the changes I'm posting here.

I believe we need to stop shying away from CC and movement speed manipulation. They are the cornerstones to any good PvP game. We should have combat moves that incorporate these aspects into them. Dash for example not only reducing the openings but also giving the player a second long sprint effect. Abilities that drop a players movement speed down a level for a second. Devastating blows which can outright stun a player for a second too.

I believe we should go even further than that though. Credos should lean into this aspect too. Nomad/Herder for example could make the player immune/less susceptible to Raw Hide. Strider could allow people to sprint even in terrain where running is the highest move speed you can usually have. Quarryman can move quicker on mountain terrain, Wandering Sage being immune to slowing debuffs, Pearl Divers should be able to swim faster and for much much much longer, like legitimately 10 minutes of swimming. You get the picture, the point of this is to provide a wide range of benefits so people can play to their strengths.

Let us add some much needed complexity to the game. To say that combat has been solved for years is an understatement. Because although certain different moves get nerfed/buffed every now and then the core aspect of PvP remains the same and it does so because of this scared refusal to play with the concept of movement speed and CC's.
In any other game, nobody bitches and moans because they got slowed or because some other classes move faster. CC and Movement speed manipulation IS HOW YOU STOP WHAT IS CURRENTLY HAPPENING IN HAVEN & HEARTH NOW, which is just endlessly running at the same movement speed but because you're the one ahead being chased you get to make it to speed buffs and click critters first. This sort of gameplay is garbage. None of my PvP loving friends will get into this game because what am I going to show them? The PvP videos that we currently have just showing groups chasing/running away from each other? Like you have to understand how bad those video look, the PvP is dogshit. I'm sorry but it just is. We need more fighting and less running. Movement is important, the topic of this thread is related to movement even, but the way things currently are, with no CC, with minimal movement manipulation, we are stuck with people being unable to actually land enough meaningful hits on their target. I want see to people using Tendon strikes to slow their opponents.

And listen, I know this will cause more deaths, that's what I want. I haven't fucking died in this game for like 9 years, I'm bored shitless. For a 'hardcore permadeath survival game' I'm really not seeing the anything hardcore about it.
A change like this would change how people play, when the realization sets in that you can't just run away with impunity then more fighting (as in the exchanging of blows instead of always prioritizing running) will happen. The nomad/herder change would see some horses actually being utilized in combat too. We need more options.

I've had the same vision of this game for years now, I wanna see groups with varied characters. Not just everyone with B12's on foot, give us weapon types that have access to moves that are unique to them. Bludgeon style weapons that can stun, Unarmed (I mean a proper unarmed build using fist weapons or some shit) being a sort of opening king using a revamped Rip Apart and Go for the Jugular to set the weapon wielding guys up for an easy kill, Archers being more prevalent, mounted horseback fighters sprinkled in. The whole works.

There's no such thing as fighting in this game besides, ironically enough, spars. Every other 'fight' is actually just 1 group chasing the other and picking off a few stragglers while they're running. There's no exchanging of blows and that's because you've fostered this sort of gameplay by giving people the greenlight to just run away indefinitely. Why take the risk when you can just run away? Take that option away from people and groups will be more inclined to fight because they'll have little choice.

I already know the reception that this will get, not because it's bad or wrong but because people don't want the game to live up to its potential or because they're just afraid of change.
Nothing will change until the stance on movement speed manipulation becomes less rigid. It is what it is.
Be bold, make it happen. We even have a second server to test such a thing now, set it up so that next world (after 16.2) potentially has these big changes in it. Run it and see how it plays out.

Also, off topic but for fuck sake change Take Aim's name to Call Down the Thunder, Take Aim is so gay and boring, CDTT is cool as fuck.

[Halbertz]

I sailed across the Atlantic in a wooden ship, survived scurvy, and battled pirates just to read this wall of text.

I believe we need to stop shying away from CC and movement speed manipulation. They are the cornerstones to any good PvP game. We should have combat moves that incorporate these aspects into them. Dash for example not only reducing the openings but also giving the player a second long sprint effect. Abilities that drop a players movement speed down a level for a second. Devastating blows which can outright stun a player for a second too.

This could work if implement right. I'm up to any changes, so this goes to [I agree!]

I believe we should go even further than that though. Credos should lean into this aspect too.

Current credos progression sucks ass. Making them mandatory to be competiteve is bad idea. This goes to [I don't agree!]

We need more fighting and less running.

[I agree!]

We need more options.

[I agree!]

because they're just afraid of change.

Not really, the real reason that devs aren't really involved enough to remake combat in something decent. Usual bird-level patch won't fix it, but will break what is working. So I can say that there are grounds for skepticism.

change Take Aim's name to Call Down the Thunder, Take Aim is so gay and boring, CDTT is cool as fuck

[I agree!]


But in the end nothing ever happens, so thread will die and jorb will never read it.

[Kinglazy]

I don't engage in pvp but this makes sense. Pvp aside, manipulating movent and behavior could be the gate way to actual hunting instead of cheesing and abusing ai. I always thought moves like takedown should immobilize for a few seconds. But it also means animals will get their own bullshit to worry about which could be great for the game. Like a dash for the boar or the bear hug preventing escape.

[Grumpkin]

Copy Albion Online and give us a set of boots that each come with different movement abilities. Varying in speed, duration and cooldown.

[Nightdawg]

jarvis, remind this person that jorb already did his yearly forum checkup to make sure gold subbers resubscribe, and this will fall into the endless pit of ignored suggestions

[_Scipio]

.. maybe ?

I hate the current state of chasing someone as it exists now. Wind speed buffs, clicking on critters, mandatory bunny slippers. WATERBOARD YOURSELF to regain stamina. 'pvp' = cross-country marathon waterboarding session. people have literally ran from me until they starved to death.

I wouldn't mind if they removed all speed amplifiers and normalized stamina regen, to the point of over a great enough distance you will eventually catch up with someone, terrain willing. Caught too far away from your base/friends? Too bad, I'm gonna get ya.

Also I wouldn't mind if they added 'hamstring' for MC, and 'Foot Stomp' for UA that slows someone temporarily.

I am weary tho, because a lot of the combat moves have existed far below the viable 'meta' for quite some time without any minor adjustments to bring them up to the 'meta' moves. Aside from storm of swords and go for the jugs which received a major buff then subsequent nerf to 'useless' again.

IDK if it's in loftar's power to check the % of moves that are actually used to gauge usefulness and take the less used and give them slight, minor buffs... anyway...

[Luno]

Not having CC is literally one of the things i praise about haven's combat.

This whole running thing is the great equalizer, anyone can escape anyone no matter the numbers. Asking for CC is just asking for someone on a horse to get ahead of you out of your screen while you are being chased to play goalkeeper.

Asking for credos to give movement advantage is just asking for people who have spent more time nolifing the game to be even stronger.

Everyone being able to pick your fights allows for hardcore consequences, the problem is that we don't have hardcore consequences anymore.

EDIT: If you want fights to happen more often than chases, you should instead add more reasons for people to stand their ground, add more localized goals and perhaps make siege possible again. But you don't want that, do you? You want to be able to spend more time in the game and thus monopolize the control over engagement.

[Grumpkin]

I think the "Critique & Ideas" subforum should be renamed to "Fanfiction" because that's what it really is.

[MightySheep]

Should have to throw a bola like landing a spear for a few seconds of stun lock

[magnet]

Should have to throw a bola like landing a spear for a few seconds of stun lock

cant wait for hafen projectile aimbot