Tool Decay

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Tool Decay

Postby Lunarius_Haberdash » Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:43 am

I'm still waiting for this to be a thing. Axes, Picks, Pots, Etc that wear out over time with use.

It will keep the economy pumping, encourage trade, and give a reason for continual mining.

Is this on the table at all?
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Re: Tool Decay

Postby jtpitner » Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:44 am

I like the idea of decay.
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Re: Tool Decay

Postby burgingham » Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:12 am

Why?

The economy is fueled by better quality becoming available. Tool decay is yet another punishment for players... You really seem to just want to make the game less fun. I am not sure if all of those C&I posts you keep spamming aren't just trolls...
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Re: Tool Decay

Postby Lunarius_Haberdash » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:23 pm

When the world becomes full of an endless supply of High Q tools, the lower Q tools begin to lose their intrinsic value altogether. The higher quality tools become 'forever items' that you never have to replace, and there is little to no purpose in doing anything not focused on the Quality Grind.

Quality Grind is anathema, it is a pox on the game and a fools errand, taking the focus off of potentially more interesting gameplay involving survival, trade, political affiliation, growth of civilization and infrastructure, culture.

If it isn't focused on the quality grind, it is perceived as not having value. Such a sad state for a game with such potential.

And if I may say so Burgingham "Less fun for YOU", the elements I'm suggesting make it more interesting for me. I wouldn't suggest them otherwise.
jorb: I don't want *your* money. You are rude and boring. Go away.
Sevenless: We already know real life has some pretty shitty game mechanics, it's why we're here instead.
Avu: The end is near it has finally come to pass: I agree with Lunarius...
Shubla: There are also other reasons to play this game than to maximize your stat gain.
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Re: Tool Decay

Postby Avu » Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:18 pm

Yeah but you are a masochistic larper...
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Re: Tool Decay

Postby Ragnar214 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:59 am

I also would like to see tool wear and tear.

They could just make it so the higher quality the tool is damaged slower. Every tool would have a certain amount of HP that gets damaged with use and and when you repair it it lowers the overall total HP capacity of the tool until it becomes utterly useless.

Lunarius is right about this "When the world becomes full of an endless supply of High Q tools, the lower Q tools begin to lose their intrinsic value altogether. The higher quality tools become 'forever items' that you never have to replace"
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Re: Tool Decay

Postby Avu » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:11 pm

Ragnar214 wrote:I also would like to see tool wear and tear.

They could just make it so the higher quality the tool is damaged slower. Every tool would have a certain amount of HP that gets damaged with use and and when you repair it it lowers the overall total HP capacity of the tool until it becomes utterly useless.

Lunarius is right about this "When the world becomes full of an endless supply of High Q tools, the lower Q tools begin to lose their intrinsic value altogether. The higher quality tools become 'forever items' that you never have to replace"


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How about we play the game a bit before we ask to make it sucky eh? Will you still love tool decay 6 months into a world when you have cows sheep pigs horses chickens cheese production mining for rare metals 20 types of crops and 80 of trees and bushes to raise q and you get hit by all your tools breaking for no reason.
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Re: Tool Decay

Postby spectacle » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:50 pm

Lunarius_Haberdash wrote:When the world becomes full of an endless supply of High Q tools, the lower Q tools begin to lose their intrinsic value altogether. The higher quality tools become 'forever items' that you never have to replace, and there is little to no purpose in doing anything not focused on the Quality Grind.

Quality Grind is anathema, it is a pox on the game and a fools errand, taking the focus off of potentially more interesting gameplay involving survival, trade, political affiliation, growth of civilization and infrastructure, culture.

If it isn't focused on the quality grind, it is perceived as not having value. Such a sad state for a game with such potential.

And if I may say so Burgingham "Less fun for YOU", the elements I'm suggesting make it more interesting for me. I wouldn't suggest them otherwise.


So instead of grinding to improve quality you want people to grind simply to stay where they are. How does that improve the game in any way?
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Re: Tool Decay

Postby Granger » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:20 pm

I'm all for decay of tools.

I wouldn't make it that the tool breaks with use, just:
- that it slowly (this word is for Jorb) loweres in quality with use
- might decay a bit (again, for Jorb) faster if wielded by inexperienced toon (lower stats than q of tool)
- might decay a little (again, for Jorb) slower if wielded by experienced toon (higher stats than q of tool)

The reasoning behind this:

With classical system we have a problem similar to capitalism: constant growth or it collapses - so it'll break itself eventually in a world of limited resources. This is a game, so we can have world resets when things get absurd (here newbie, take this q37k saw, saw logs till your first wounderous shaving: studying that will give you all Skills in game there are plus enough LP to be bored for the rest of your existance).

This leads to several problems:

- Need to quality grind, getting to even higher numbers.
- Numbers have to be unlimited for that reason
- Only extreme hardcore groups will be on top, then long time nothing, then the rest
- Have to constantly keep grinding, left behind once you're basically done competing
- New player gets a set of tools once, then can basically quit (in that area of game mechanics) since they won't be able to upgrade on this by themselves, ever
- Trade is relatively one-time per item (barring accidents)

Having tool decay in q would in my view lead to the following consequences:

- Constant demand instead of singly-time transactions for a specific tool, furthering trade
- Still have to work hard to be in top of q group
- Quality dosn't has to be raising endless
- New players can't be bored anymore by single-time gifting of tool set
- Gap between top and new players isn't growing unlimited anymore
- World could run endless (no reset needed because of numbers getting to high)
- Players could cencentrate on different stuff than just raising numbers

Just some thoughts.

I think it might be interesting to explore the meachanic to see where it leads us - could be more fun (game wise) than having to grind numbers.
Combat already seems to be a bit less number-based as before (and more fun because of that), why not experiment with aspects of quality too?
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Re: Tool Decay

Postby Avu » Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:26 pm

People will still push q at infnity you just added more work for everyone. The top people will use their tools a limited time and then just remake them, resources are not that limited. And they still won't sell you good shit.
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