Steel and Firebrands - because 'Fuck You'

[whiskeypete]

Two absolutely useless mechanics that only cause frustration and add absolutely nothing to the game.

I'm home 10 minutes late from work so now I have to start my steel over again. Or maybe I'll just stop playing like the other 800 people that used to play but don't anymore.

[Sevenless]

Firebrands are definitely a fuck you. Flint/steel exists, so does matches though. So that argument isn't the same as it used to be. You've got options for that now.

Steel... well it's like silk. Only really "meant" for hardcores, but usually it can be traded for. Now that trade is so relatively easy, I think saying "just trade for it" has a lot more weight than it used to.

[jorb]

Feel free to suggest other, less useless, mechanics that can create ingame goods of some value.

Should nothing ever and in principle be dependent on a critical timer? Silk should also go?

Also QQ moar.

[whiskeypete]

qq Jorb... I'm giving you monies, now I'm telling why Im going to stop. Do with it what you will...

Get rid of failed firebrands, let steel retain its completion as every other 'baked' product does. Problem solved.

[Sevenless]

Feel free to suggest other, less useless, mechanics that can create ingame goods of some value.

Should nothing ever and in principle be dependent on a critical timer? Silk should also go?

Also QQ moar.

Part of this question is "Should there be any hardcore only mechanics in haven". I'm not sure about that concept, because in general hardcores already do all the non-hardcore only mechanics better in the long run.

Assuming we go with the answer "hardcores don't need special mechanics because their hardcoreness already makes them better", time critical is fine but 24 hour timers with a 4 hour active window spread (available 20-28 hours after started) are probably the best. That allows someone to align time critical mechanics to their usual playtime, and most haven players will be logging in daily long enough to complete stuff like silk and steel at least once in a while.

Along those general lines:
Treeplanter pots should get extended lifespan after sprouting to match a 24 hour window.
Silk egg maturation time should be lengthened to 22 hours. Instead of taking 2.5ish days, it would take 3 days per cycle. Pretty sure the other portions of the cycle align with 24 hours? I forget the math on that, but you get the idea.
Steel crucible should be able to hold 28 hours worth of fuel. Refueling would be a once a day thing now, instead of needing to abuse your schedule for it.

I think this wouldn't influence tree value much, silk value would be about the same (the real nuisance with silk is all the item transport you need basically), but steel would become easier to make since the time shenanigans are the main barrier to its production.

[viznew]

dang i wont lie i kinda like fire brands and their mechanic lol thou less fail rate whould be nice (but in later game theres other stuff can do to light fire(matches, torch, kindle)
seems approiate early game thing but thats my option

as for steel i like that if you slack on it you pay is more an advanced thing to obtained same with silk, giving it trade value and real worth, i'd hate to see them become more common, and way it is now kinda help people wanna join each other and work as a group, people who play once a month can find gold and salt and red crystals but only those who consistantly play can get steel and silk with out trading for it, so imo i like it how it is

[2d0x]

...let steel retain its completion as every other 'baked' product does...

I agree. Let it take more time, but a complete discharge is quite cruel :\ And silk delivers a lot of hemorrhoids :\

[Cajoes]

... I've kind of been using Kindle (hearthmagic) whenever I can't be assed to make a firebrand.

[Grog]

qq Jorb... I'm giving you monies, now I'm telling why Im going to stop. Do with it what you will...

Get rid of failed firebrands, let steel retain its completion as every other 'baked' product does. Problem solved.

Even if you want to blackmail the devs you should need some better arguments
"I don't like that" just doesn't do. There are other people who like it.


A middleground between the current state and the suggested would be the wrought bar staying at it's progress bar, but losing q constantly until refueled.

[Granger]

Firebrands
I think the chance for them should scale with survival, which would still give the occasional *pfff* NOOO! but would be reasonable as with a high enough survival skill one should have learned how to light some sticks by rubbing them together. Having a bow equipped should speed it up massively (in terms of reduced time and stamina drain), having a unit of straw (be consumed in the process) in the inventory should raise the chance to light and/or speedup.

Silk
Maybe give the option to infect mulberry trees with worms for easy (without having to ferry the leafs around) generation of silk. Let hatching moths work like bats but only move between nearby mulberry trees so they could cycle silk on a group of mulberries on their own (kept in check population wise by the amount of leafs growing). Quantity will be lower as some fly away (or whatever lore you come up with) and quality also being reduced (for bullshit reason of the day like it rained on the silk, whatever works for you). This will be the beginners way to make silk of shitty quality, which should stay being shitty even with hq moths and trees.

Then (at least and finally as we're waiting a long time for this) a dedicated building that combines the function of a herbalist table and feeding/breeding cupboard where the silk cycle can run on it's own as long as you feed leafs from time to time, giving better yield quality&quantity wise than having them in trees but a bit lower than doing the herbalist table/cabinet dance (like make the integrated herbalist table take longer, or let the worms feed interval longer as they're busy adoring their nice surroundings, whatever). Basically a chicken/rabbit coop style where leafs go in as fodder, a big enough buffer where eggs from breeding moths fall into (averaging the quality, auto-hatching when free slots are available in the inventory grid) and the grid for holding moths/worms/cocoons. In that the cycle will run on itself and only require leafs to be put in every some days, should you want to harvest you'll have to come by and pick cocoons to unravel similar like we're milking cows. That would be QoL, please implement.

Keep the mechanic to use herbalist table and containers for no-lifers/grinding if you want as it would be a bit faster than the dedicated building.

Steel
While having a game that is able to modify the RL schedule of the players might be seen as effective from bean counters or evil brainwashing marketing masters perspective, I think it's an inherently evil meachnic to exploit. Let us relight the steel boxes and continue the process with the product getting a quality hit/the total time (and fuel consumption) being increased/both. Or a bigger fuel reserve to last a RL day, whatever. Also please get rid of the currently available 'fuck yourself' opportunity by disabling taking out the wrought with shift-click/empty wheelbarrow.