Should Haven have Turing complete automation

[MooCow]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the possibility of having Turing complete automation. How it is implemented, whether from golems, undead voodoo slaves, magic red powder, or really well trained dogs, doesn't matter.

For those that don't know what 'Turing complete' means

A Turing complete system is capable of:

• Performing a sequence of actions
• Making choices based on inputs
• Travel backwards and forwards through the action sequence
• Alter the sequence of actions

For example the auto drinking and auto harvesting bots are NOT Turing complete. It performs a sequence, and make choices, but they can't travel backwards and forwards through their sequence.

Turing complete automation doesn't mean that you can do anything a botting client could do, it means that you could do anything that is covered in the scope of automation.

If players were able to make a spells that could kill domestic animals, and move objects, and inspect things, you could completely automate the breeding of animals, but this would not allow you to automatically build walls everywhere.

For even more details see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_completeness

What should and shouldn't be able to be automated is what I would like to talk about.

I believe that we should have Turing complete automation, and anything a brand new alt could do without leaving your claim should be able to be automated.

I would like to hear what the rest of you think.

[shubla]

i dont think you understand what turing complete means

[MooCow]

i dont think you understand what turing complete means

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_completeness please read this article, and explain what I got wrong.
Please don't intentionally derail discussions.

[wonder-ass]

jorb and loftar are stubborn on that every character is a human player, so i doubt they would ever add fully automation.

[svino]

its already a feature in the game, its called bots. any client modification is turing complete because java is turing complete

[MagicManICT]

At the first post:

At everyone else:

Nothing should be automated. Game mechanics should be such that you actually want to play the mechanics instead of getting bored with them to the point of wanting to script it away. There will always be the power gamers and such that want to be on the "half dead on the floor of cutting edge" of the best. The question should be more along the lines of "should the game (and community) be protected from them?"

Should we even be making Turing Complete AI? No, we shouldn't, and on the other hand, it's the only way.

Either way, we don't have to worry about it here. There's just not enough computing power for most people to even think about doing anything other than simple scripting.

[boshaw]

Nothing should be automated. Game mechanics should be such that you actually want to play the mechanics instead of getting bored with them to the point of wanting to script it away.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

The question should be more along the lines of "should the game (and community) be protected from them?"

In a better world, yes.

[MooCow]

its already a feature in the game, its called bots. any client modification is turing complete because java is turing complete

Technically true, maybe I should just start botting

Nothing should be automated. Game mechanics should be such that you actually want to play the mechanics instead of getting bored with them to the point of wanting to script it away. There will always be the power gamers and such that want to be on the "half dead on the floor of cutting edge" of the best. The question should be more along the lines of "should the game (and community) be protected from them?"

In any game where automation exists, building cool systems that perform basic tasks is not circumventing the game. It becomes part of the game. Did people stop playing Minecraft when they introduced pistons and hoppers? No. They didn't reduce the content of the game, they increased it.

Not everyone that bots does it because they are powergamer. People make cool shit because cool shit is cool. IMO the best protection from powergaming will always be diminishing returns, and has nothing to do with automation/botting.

jorb and loftar are stubborn on that every character is a human player, so i doubt they would ever add fully automation.

I really hope that any addition of automation to the game would exist in a way that a human player could still compete. I just want to build neat-o contraptions.

[MagicManICT]

In any game where automation exists, building cool systems that perform basic tasks is not circumventing the game. It becomes part of the game. Did people stop playing Minecraft when they introduced pistons and hoppers? No. They didn't reduce the content of the game, they increased it.

There's a huge difference between having mechanical tools such as this in the game and running scripts to do menial tasks. In some cases in games like Minecraft, you can set it up to do game tasks for you (same in Dwarf Fortress, and many others). In some games, it's the entire point of the game (Zachtronics games come to mind). We don't have automation tools in the game, though in some cases they might be nice. Instead, we have 3rd party app clients and scripts, and this is something entirely different.

maybe I should just start botting

Nobody would fault you for it. IMO, there's a big difference between using some bots to let you browse the web while farming, etc, and running bots on ten clients to build your alt army. The latter can be just as fun as anything, but it can have some negative consequences on the community.

[Granger]

I really hope that any addition of automation to the game would exist in a way that a human player could still compete. I just want to build neat-o contraptions.

Wouldn't work as humans need sleep (and the ways around that are unhealthy and in most places illegal).

To quench your thirst for designing neat-o contraptions try Factorio or Oxygen Not Included.