Satiations, global pools, hunger and how it's affected trade

[bmjclark]

To put it bluntly, trade sucks in this game right now compared to legacy.

Subtoken - 100 pts
Candleberry - 1pts
Wax - 3pts
Icicles - 100 pts
Salt 10q - 1 3 pts, 20 q - 6 pts...
Pearl - 25 pts
Silk - PM
Silver - PM
Gold - PM
Hats - PM

This is berthadins trade thread prices for things he's buying.

Forgables: q20+
Shocked Frog - 100 pts
Bluebell - 40 pts
Peculiar Flotsam - 20 pts
Edelweiss - 10 pts
Enthroned - 10 pts
Glimmermoss - 5 pts

Stuff:
Unbutchered bear - 50pts
Bear hide (q200) - 50pts
Bear hide (any q) - 35pts
Silk cloth (any q) - 50 pts
Silk cloth (200+) - 60 pts
White clay (any q) - 8 pts

This is a thread from the end of world 7.

Notice a difference? The world 7 thread is full of things a noob could reasonably provide. Why? Because easy things like forageables and bears actually had value. Even silk had far more value in legacy than in current worlds because merchant robes were the end game robe where as now there are better options for fighters. Now, the forageable curios are quite rare and their LP per hour isn't even that good to compensate for the rarity. You can't trade bears as a noob anymore because they get hardcapped by your survival. Your only real option to break into the trade market at all is to buy sub tokens.

Same thing applies to food. In legacy we used to trade for cheese (any quality, because satiations and hunger didn't exist) but now you'd never do it because you can only eat a few pieces of a certain type of food per day and you can easily keep up with that demand without outside help. In legacy, if someone traded me 2 LCs of pumpkin pies i'd be happy, now they'd sit in my house for a few weeks because i couldn't reasonably eat them all. People used to trade for wall grade steel or wrought to make bwalls, but now bwalls aren't required (they help, but i dont think they help enough that most factions will build more than 1 if that). Noobs aren't reasonably going to get localized resources because the factions who will trade their high quality stuff for localized resources already walled them or camp them.

These nerfs to massing food/forageables have definitely hurt bots, but they've hurt the trade market far, far more. The market revolves around RMT partly because of sub tokens, but also partly because you've nerfed the ability of noobs to provide anything of value in your fight to devalue bots.

[dageir]

We need a wide range of specialist products so that noone could have the time or resources to make all products.

[rye130]

We need a wide range of specialist products so that noone could have the time or resources to make all products.

Unless you have some genius way to do that, factions will just make all the stuff inhouse anyways. Its basically impossible to keep up with the quality of the big, established factions for newer or normal players. Back in the day there were things newer players could provide that were universally valuable, not really the case anymore.

[bmjclark]

Honestly, it'd be nice to have more specialization but the fact is even if there were the big factions would just find ways to do it all. We need forageable curios to be worth a fuck. We need lower quality food to be worth trading for. We need things that a noob who's starting out could provide that larger groups will value. Specialization doesn't help that because they still won't have anything to trade for that large groups will value.

Back in world 7, I traded merchant robes to mostly noobs/semi established villages. They'd provide me with food or pearls. Now, i really don't think i'd accept anything but sub tokens because mass amounts of food are fucking worthless and all the forageable curios just aren't worth trading for.

I'd like to see forageable curios have their study time increased and LP per hour remain the same so that it at least provides a noticeable boost when you're lucky enough to find one / trade for one. I'd like to see this whole satiations system just go because frankly it sucks.

[dageir]

We need a wide range of specialist products so that noone could have the time or resources to make all products.

Unless you have some genius way to do that, factions will just make all the stuff inhouse anyways. Its basically impossible to keep up with the quality of the big, established factions for newer or normal players. Back in the day there were things newer players could provide that were universally valuable, not really the case anymore.

I am not sure if there is a genious solution to this. One option would be to time gate certain skills heavily. If you look at EVE online there are some serious time gates on a plethora of skills and specializations.

[Aceb]

We need a wide range of specialist products so that noone could have the time or resources to make all products.

You're naive to believe it might be easy to do. And well, beside saying something obvious that is.

[shubla]

This!
I said the same thing earlier in some hnh discord group!
Tokens have ruined trade, and maybe other things as well.
You cannot buy anything with something easy to get these days, when only things that people buy are tokens, hats, and some rare localized resources. (Most of which are walled off anyway)

[Ozzy123]

Would be nice if less developed players could do something that would be valuable for more developed players, yeah. Berth & I already got stocked up on like 50 cupboards of wax from trading because that's the only thing that newbies can produce.

[shubla]

I would also say that bots also cause more issues than before.
Yeah there were bots in legacy too, but these days they are much more widespread and perhaps advanced too.

In legacy, pearls (glimmer, all forageables) were heavily botted, BUT they were still quite valuable, and any noob could boil some mussels to get some pearls, everyone was buying them for 50 pts each. Glimmer and bluebells were often bought too.
These days pearls are impossible to get, and they are only 25 pts. And no one buys glimmers or bluebells, which also seem a lot more rare than before.

Maybe forageable spawn mechanic should be changed to same as it was in legacy, forageables should be buffed a lot, and ability to farm them in pots removed completely, at least for uncommon ones like bluebells.
Just to see what happens?

[dageir]

At least the quests in their current form should be removed to increase the demand for curiosities.