improve early-end game

[xzo]

breakdown of how I see the timeline of world11

we have

early game when we discover the map
early-mid where we settling up
mid game where we forming villages, kingdoms
mid late where kingdoms are brawling for meteors, hunting whales and generally improving,
late where kingdoms are after few battles and everyone is bored as fuck, spamming ded gaem on discord and selling hats

every update we read that main focus is render rewrite but should that be top1 priority ?
my suggestion is to write down those 5 phases on your whiteboards and start improving each phases,

early game will always aply to new players,
early mid to forever sprucecaps
mid to small/medium villages
mid-late to people who got most of things but stil want bit of excitement
late game to maniacs who want challenge, who want to be in top1 and to feel it came at cost


I want to put one idea per phase just to keep this post up, but I count on forum readers to put their ideas as more experienced players than myself

early - rework foraged items quality hard caps, instead of hard capped quality, add limitation for person with lower stats so that person cannot use it to its full potential, as an example, new player is picking pit clay, this new player have low masonry but pit clay itself is apparently the best pit clay in the game, so this poor noob cannot use it but he can find someone with high masonry to define the real quality of that item, to then sell it to more advanced player, or he can add few points to masonry himself to then examine the item for its real quality, this would definelty help new players, and improve early game

early-mid - keep adding cosmetics, things like fountains, you are doing a lot of good job for this part

mid-game - improve options for transportation, trading, travel, I like how you were experimenting with not allowing fast travel trought the oceans, I like that idea but to implement it you need to give something instead, not sure what would it be

mid-late - more dungeons, those are amazing, add bear dungeons, or troll dungeons !! jesus dude, that hardcore players would freak the fuck out of happiness i bet, add more weapons, and listen to more experienced players about their ideas for combat system improvement ! those guys are keeping game alive, even if they cry like bunch of bitches now and then, we all need them

late game - here my idea would be to add wear on everything, tools, cloths, backpacks, capes, everything, wtf is that I can fight bear who will get my leather shoos ripped apart but wont destroy bunny slippers, come on. just add it. same on weapons, some of those items should be fixable, some not, to maintain flow of "need" you have to create "waste"


please comment.

[MagicManICT]

every update we read that main focus is render rewrite but should that be top1 priority ?

It unfortunately has to be, or else it'd take 5-10 years to get done isntead of 2-3, and then what's the point as everyone is running on CPUs and graphics that can handle it. My recommendation is to go homebrew your own 3D engine and optimize it. you will then understand the extreme difficulty in this type of software. It's the reason major graphics engines have a team of 30 people instead of just a few like Doom/Doom 2, etc.

As for everything else... good write up. I know at least one of those, dungeons, got commented on in the last stream, and if I recall right, they (jorbtar) would like to get a good combat system into place before developing such things any further. When combat changes, everything has to have rewrites for functionality and AI. (I recall that's how jorb explained it.) And item wear has been suggested multiple times with a lot of feedback.

[jorb]

Thank you for the ideas. Has a bit of a grab bag quality to them, unfortunately.

Early: The hardcaps are intentional to delay scouting of the best quality spots.

Mid: Not sure where travel is @ right now, tbt. We have made it a lot easier.

Mid-late: More dungeons would be sweet.

Late: Not sure I like the idea of more general decay. What would it really solve?

[Duncan]

More dungeons +1


Maybe a Boreworm dungeon that opens rarely when mining.

[MightySheep]

early - make it so you can eat without seriously damaging your characters progress in the long run

early mid - I cant stand the fact that im forced to devote so much time for fishing credo, I thought the whole point is you have choices and you pick your path but for some reason all the best credos require that you tear your hair out looking for specific fish all over the world first. its incredibly un-fun.

mid - be nice if it wasnt necessary to go through the tedious effort of palisading world resources before some random hermit cucks you and you literally cant do anything to prevent it

mid late - used to have to worry about getting brick walls, when did that stop being a thing

late - add value to being strong and incentives to pvp beyond meteor, there is any number of ways to do this but the gist is the same people need a goal to work towards. 1 idea I personally like is some sort of 'warrior rank' / elo system / battle score for getting kills or assists on rage characters over a certain level. Especially if it came with a visual effect so everyone could see who is top pvper.

[xzo]

thanks for reply!

Late: Not sure I like the idea of more general decay. What would it really solve?

it would create more "need", send people out more often, improve foraging, ( if we talk decay even on foraged item ), improve mining ( more iron needed for repairs, broken swords ets ), reduce spiraling ( metal will be used to fix weapons ), make pvp more rewarding and expensive to run, I think it would make game a little more hardcore as it was long time ago

[jorb]

early - make it so you can eat without seriously damaging your characters progress in the long run

early mid - I cant stand the fact that im forced to devote so much time for fishing credo, I thought the whole point is you have choices and you pick your path but for some reason all the best credos require that you tear your hair out looking for specific fish all over the world first. its incredibly un-fun.

mid - be nice if it wasnt necessary to go through the tedious effort of palisading world resources before some random hermit cucks you and you literally cant do anything to prevent it

mid late - used to have to worry about getting brick walls, when did that stop being a thing

late - add value to being strong and incentives to pvp beyond meteor, there is any number of ways to do this but the gist is the same people need a goal to work towards. 1 idea I personally like is some sort of 'warrior rank' / elo system / battle score for getting kills or assists on rage characters over a certain level. Especially if it came with a visual effect so everyone could see who is top pvper.

Hey, you wrote a really constructive comment! Good man!

[Ants]

early - make it so you can eat without seriously damaging your characters progress in the long run

early mid - I cant stand the fact that im forced to devote so much time for fishing credo, I thought the whole point is you have choices and you pick your path but for some reason all the best credos require that you tear your hair out looking for specific fish all over the world first. its incredibly un-fun.

mid - be nice if it wasnt necessary to go through the tedious effort of palisading world resources before some random hermit cucks you and you literally cant do anything to prevent it

mid late - used to have to worry about getting brick walls, when did that stop being a thing

late - add value to being strong and incentives to pvp beyond meteor, there is any number of ways to do this but the gist is the same people need a goal to work towards. 1 idea I personally like is some sort of 'warrior rank' / elo system / battle score for getting kills or assists on rage characters over a certain level. Especially if it came with a visual effect so everyone could see who is top pvper.

Defending your base, destroying your enemies and fighting over resources should be plenty of incentive for PVP. Now if only siege was feasible...

[Granger]

Defending your base, destroying your enemies and fighting over resources should be plenty of incentive for PVP. Now if only siege was feasible...

Would siege be feasible you wouldn't have a base.

Late: Not sure I like the idea of more general decay. What would it really solve?

Like the world getting meaningless with time (as the things there are made irrelevant by industry qualities and the mobs turn from deadly to nuisances), ever increasing characters disparities (that demotivates weaker / deterres late joining players, most humans don't feel like grinding tenthousands of FEP points and multi-millions of LP), newbies seeing q500 tools which makes them quit (as they 'realize' that they'll never ever be able to improve on them themselves), collapse of commerce (as a 'good enough' tool is eternal since the 'more' to be gained dosn't justify the cost of getting a 'better' one from some point onward).

All of which decay could solve, when implemented in a way that it replaces 'endlessly raising quality' (and the inevitable effects that has on characters) as the item sink / busywork of the current 'endgame'. But I guess Haven is like a democracy (even when it isn't) - in the sense that things that would benefit 95+% of the population are guaranteed to never be implemented, to not inconvenience the powers that be.

[Headchef]

Defending your base, destroying your enemies and fighting over resources should be plenty of incentive for PVP. Now if only siege was feasible...

Would siege be feasible you wouldn't have a base.

Late: Not sure I like the idea of more general decay. What would it really solve?

Like the world getting meaningless with time (as the things there are made irrelevant by industry qualities and the mobs turn from deadly to nuisances), ever increasing characters disparities (that demotivates weaker / deterres late joining players, most humans don't feel like grinding tenthousands of FEP points and multi-millions of LP), newbies seeing q500 tools which makes them quit (as they 'realize' that they'll never ever be able to improve on them themselves), collapse of commerce (as a 'good enough' tool is eternal since the 'more' to be gained dosn't justify the cost of getting a 'better' one from some point onward).

All of which decay could solve, when implemented in a way that it replaces 'endlessly raising quality' (and the inevitable effects that has on characters) as the item sink / busywork of the current 'endgame'. But I guess Haven is like a democracy (even when it isn't) - in the sense that things that would benefit 95+% of the population are guaranteed to never be implemented, to not inconvenience the powers that be.

People who quit over seeing HQ stuff they can't reach shouldn't be playing anyway.

When I was a noob I was just trying to enjoy the game do your own thing and if you feel like you really want it then buy a tool or something.

But these market zombies that are playing now whose only purpose is to grind coins and keep buying things they can't maintain for the purpose of being less of a shitter are still playing the game wrong because the entire concept is unsustainable and it doesn't matter if they have 120 or 400 feps they will die to actual fighters in every stage of the world.
The gap will always be there, in knowing what to do as well as stats.

So I think everyone should just try to let that go. You need so much people time and resources to be able to compete, and unless the same amount of effort is equalized or triumphed, it is the way it should be.

Unlike what some forum noobs here think, people aren't as bad as it seems. If you don't bother anyone and your realm is not getting bothered because their warriors won't give fights, you will be fine. Should play for fun and not competing with things out of reach because that's a lost battle before it starts, for good reason.