Nerf Garden Pots

[Granger]

Inspired by
Subject: Stat Crunch Idea

So it is a good thing to not have a nice setup/home to go out of and adventure form?

Its not a good thing to have a nice setup from which you no longer have to adventure from because you have the means to endlessely grind quality.within it. In the current endgame the only reason anyone needs to leave their base is for iron cause all.forageables necissary for the grind.are pot grown and everything else needed is farmed.

So yes. It is a good thing to not have a nice setup/home in the current state of the game. It negates the need for anything else.

The ability to multiply foraged things in garden pots is the main (if not sole) reason for making foraging pointless quite soon in a world.

Hence here's the suggestion to change garden pots to return only exactly one item when harvesting them, which would still allow them to be used to increase the quality of plantable items but no longer to (exponentially, depending on the amount of pots you created) increase them in quantity.

That would restore trade demand for these items (so lesser developed characters have something to gather again) or, for the cheap ones who don't want to give others things, introduce a need to leave the walls. It also would allow to make more items plantable in garden pots for decorative reasons, which currently isn't a reasonable option (for obvious reasons).

[Aceb]

Put more effort into your topic and put WHICH forage/plantable and WHY. While I agree for a decour purpouses to increase quality of edeilweib and such items (input 1, output 1) and stuff, but I don't agree with outright willy nilly bad pots!

I mostly dictate that this discussion happens from time to time and there is no conclusion so put effort into that. Especially after gardening riot.

[Granger]

Put more effort into your topic and put WHICH forage/plantable and WHY.

WHICH: all of them.
WHY: having foraged one of them completely removes the need to forage another, ever, making it irrelevant by turning it into an one-off action.

I don't agree with outright willy nilly bad pots!

Please put more effort in that.

Especially after gardening riot.

Gardening riot could only happen because gardening was introduced in a manner that made a good part of the game completely irrelevant - and people felt entitled to keep a mechanic that's completely breaking a good part of the game, because it suits them along the motto of I have mine, fuck you.

[The_Lich_King]

+1

If i could vote for this 1000 times, i would becuase pot planting is one of the main reasons you never really have to leave your base anymore. It removes any need for the outside world, because if you forage anything only once, regardless of quality you can take it back and begin quality grinding in your base, which also is why quality grinding is a little bit worse this world, more stuff to grind. Ultimately forgaing has needed to be buffed ever since w9 and we still haven't gotten it to the place where foraging is even useful, save for the early game. We need to buff foraging but even if we were to do this people would still pot grind so i advocate for the SEVERE nerfing of pots or complete removal of them. Also we should probably nerf farming for this same reason.

[Aceb]

Put more effort into your topic and put WHICH forage/plantable and WHY.

WHICH: all of them.
WHY: having foraged one of them completely removes the need to forage another, ever, making it irrelevant by turning it into an one-off action.

Gibberish.

I don't agree with outright willy nilly bad pots!

Please put more effort in that.

Bad parry.

Especially after gardening riot.

Gardening riot could only happen because gardening was introduced in a manner that made a good part of the game completely irrelevant - and people felt entitled to keep a mechanic that's completely breaking a good part of the game, because it suits them along the motto of I have mine, fuck you.

Let's cover all items that we can forage and plant:
Blueberries: might be relevenat as long as forage in first weeks is relevant. Then, it stops becoming relevant as much, since even if You rise quantity and quality of blueberries, nobody anymore cares about this. There's more, better foods to be made and less bothersome for mutliple people.

Bloodstern: Made king of the wood food relevant on higher qualities. Growth time is extended compared to blueberries as well as require gardner credo. It is a food that a lot of players care for if they have a dedicated gardner. Foraging bloodsterns to made it is completely pointless, since usually it quality will drop quality of end product by the threshold of "do not waste time on it". Most of remaining crafting recipies don't care much for quality, nor quantity.

Troll mushroom: "WHICH: all of them." You didn't put effort and should demand those to be forage-able?

Chantrelles: copy-paste blueberries.

Chives: Relevant only on beginning, somewhat later on due to being plantable forage. I doubt factions / serious people would care to buy and use those if quantity maybe not, but quality drop would once again, kill end product quality, making it irrevelant.

Clover: Many, me included, only managed to get four leaf clover this way. Personally, I got only one and I was one of few who bothered to do it not for decor purpouses. You really want to kill quantity and quality of that, while both doesn't matter and it's just "waste of good mulch" how my mates called it?

Dill: This one I'm not sure, but I was told it affects quality of end product. Again, it's not about quantity, it's about quality. Ground quality would make it irrevelant much.

Kvann: ditto.

Lady's Mantle:: A joke curio since... since ever. People never bothered with it unless they had space while running around and aren't competetive people. The buffed version, Dewy, is somewhat used but I heard it is somewhat tedious/hard/impossible to plant those and quality isn't worth the trip. Not to say, dragonflies will occupy inventory and it will not fit anywhere.

Parasol mushroom: ditto blueberries, chantrelles but, this one at least had a bit more serious use THANKS TO QUALITY RISE. Quantity doesn't matter.

Uncommon snapdragon: ditto Lady's mantle but without dawy version. Cool for decorative tho.

Stinging Nettles: People battled for 70-80q node in the start of world. Later on nobody cares and about any quality/quantity. It's however convienent to have a pot or two hidden just in case for noobs. If input/output 1 would work, nothing changes here, so why?

Strawberries: Somewhat used but mostly because it was very unfucking unfun to travel 1hour to different continent and find maybe one or two. Sure, yeah, market, but still, wasting time traveling to market. Barely used by factions, somewhat used by noobs. Removing, changes nothing, even removes further usages for hermits who care about planting and replanting them.

Yarrow: Instead of using 3 picked up in wilderness while doing something completely different, You use only one You planted. Yeah, really game killing. Can't heal more serious wounds, so what's your problem here?

Cavebulb: Takes 5 days, will be used regardless if plantable or not, but I doubt it would be any serious for trading. Foraging profession wouldn't earn for a bread just by this. The moment first troll with mushroom dies and cheese kicks in, it becomes irrelevant. Again, there's no point in removing that one. Also I forgot, requires gardner, so You're almost guarantee to unlock it after cheese and tshrooms kicks in.

Chiming bell: Time, effort put into gardnering those is not worth the output You get. Still, used by factions IF they have dedicated gardner and everybody else, as vacation / replacement curio if there's a slot.

Can't cover thyme and sage as I stopped being serious gardner at this point, but from what I heard, I could say "ditto kvann".

Now, greenman, it's your time to put in some good, delicious effort. Foraging is, will be, always only a starting thing and nothing more than a curiosity later on, when while doing something else. Forager evolves into Gardner and if somebody is lazy enough to scream "I WANT TO BE FORAGER, NOT GARDNER", because that's easier, should they be listened to? Should You, be listened now, no effort man?

[I'm unaware if there's more plantable things, probably not, because wiki would cover such things]

edit: somehow this wasn't posted:
You still have to exit to HUNT, You still have to exit to TRADE, You still have to exit to MINE, You still have to exit to QUEST, You still have to exit to CREDO, You still have to exit to ... do anything. Saying You can close yourself and do farmville is being ignorant to rest of the game, just because for some reason You see foraging as "biggest part" of the game and that garden pots kills that, which is laughable into your face. *laughs in garden*

[Archiplex]

I don't say this often and while I still like ya, this is an absolutely piss poor idea. Not only because it tackles an issue that can be fixed in other ways, but because it effectively makes an entire subsystem in the game nearly useless; who in the right mind would bother waiting several days just to bump up the quality of a single foraged good?

I agree with most of what aceb said, but also want to push it forward:

Foraging being aged out is not bad. Foraging being replaced by gardening, IMO, is a fine stage of development for individual players- the issue is that it causes players to be stuck inside their homes even more, which I think can be solved in other ways (namely, providing real competitive localized quests that villages/realms have to compete to complete).

Hell, I would be more inclined to argue the other way: Make the quality of plants even more important than the pot quality so that raising the quality of gardening items slower, but make them yield a tiny bit more.

[Granger]

[You see foraging as "biggest part" of the game

And by making up stuff that you put into other people's mouths you invalidate your argument.

Which is a shame, as you argued that nicely that basically everything that can be put into garden pots is irrelevant - only then to abandon logic because that would have let you reach the conclusion that if it's irrelevant... there is no reason to not disable multiplication in pots.

[Aceb]

[You see foraging as "biggest part" of the game

And by making up stuff that you put into other people's mouths you invalidate your argument.

Which is a shame, as you argued that nicely that basically everything that can be put into garden pots is irrelevant - only then to abandon logic because that would have let you reach the conclusion that if it's irrelevant... there is no reason to not disable multiplication in pots.

No, I gave You a bait to hook into. And this instead of making a decent reply. Shame, that such logical person as You failed for that. It's nice that I put some effort but You put none. I have no idea why I had hopes for discussion but seems that those days, You can't even count on green people. Shame. What a shame.

[Agrik]

The ability to multiply foraged things in garden pots is the main (if not sole) reason for making foraging pointless quite soon in a world.

Hence here's the suggestion to change garden pots to return only exactly one item when harvesting them, which would still allow them to be used to increase the quality of plantable items but no longer to (exponentially, depending on the amount of pots you created) increase them in quantity.

It strikes me that I thought it's other way round: the problem is created by quality growth, while increasing quantity is fine.

That would restore trade demand for these items (so lesser developed characters have something to gather again) or, for the cheap ones who don't want to give others things, introduce a need to leave the walls.

I wonder, why exactly it would be a better solution to limit quantity than to limit quality? I can imagine it may better in the current situation while the span of natural qualities is insufficient, thus needing a way to raise Q. Is this all?

It also would allow to make more items plantable in garden pots for decorative reasons, which currently isn't a reasonable option (for obvious reasons).

I see no trouble in allowing to plant anything while limiting it specifically up to no yield if needed.

[The_Lich_King]

The ability to multiply foraged things in garden pots is the main (if not sole) reason for making foraging pointless quite soon in a world.

Hence here's the suggestion to change garden pots to return only exactly one item when harvesting them, which would still allow them to be used to increase the quality of plantable items but no longer to (exponentially, depending on the amount of pots you created) increase them in quantity.

It strikes me that I thought it's other way round: the problem is created by quality growth while increasing quantity is fine.

That would restore trade demand for these items (so lesser developed characters have something to gather again) or, for the cheap ones who don't want to give others things, introduce a need to leave the walls.

I wonder, why exactly it would be a better solution to limit quantity than to limit quality? I can imagine it may better in the current situation while the span of natural qualities is insufficient, thus needing a way to raise Q. Is this all?

It also would allow to make more items plantable in garden pots for decorative reasons, which currently isn't a reasonable option (for obvious reasons).

I see no trouble in allowing to plant anything while limiting it specifically up to no yield if needed.

I think it should limit quality far over limiting quantity but ultimately i think it should limit both, cause even if you severely nerf the quality of garden pots people will probably still grind that Q regardless of how hard and tedious it is, since once they get the quality up they have a numerous supply of that quality. Ultimately i think both aspects should be nerfed.