Domesticated vs. Wild balance idea

[Zentetsuken]

The idea of nerfing garden pots has been brought up a lot, as well as the idea of nerfing domesticated animals.

At this point in the game, nobody forages and nobody hunts, there is simply no need to because almost all domesticated products are superior in quality and feps.

Instead of just flat out nerfing domestication, what about spicing it up with some more logical real-life possible negative factors.

Isn't it sort of the case that the more domesticated an animal line or plant line gets the more susceptible to disease it gets? With only selective breeding and no ability to really manage things at a more scientific level, I think it stands to reason that heir-looming open-pollinated and selectively bred seed for many generations could actually end up being a harmful practice. A selectively bred plant or animal could easily become highly susceptible to disease, the vast majority of an open-pollinated crop could potentially hybridize in to something that is less resistant, vigorous and lesser yield within 1 generation.

My point is that maybe something like disease, yield, even fep variations should be something that is rolled like a dice each time you plant a mass amount of seeds? Not sure how this would go with domesticated animals, but perhaps there should be some sort of "negative stats" that can and will ultimately grow alongside all the positive ones we selectively breed for.

Also, isn't living off the land and eating super natural ingredients considered to be more healthy? Isn't wild honey, wild berries and meat healthier? Higher in minerals and all that good junk?

I've suggested this before, but I will reiterate again, that all wild meat and fruit and foragables should have a special tag on them. Maybe even a whole separate variant of feps, like Str, Str2 and StrWild, and when you pop your FEP bar and it rolls StrWild you have a 50% chance or higher of getting 2 feps. Maybe it rolls a second fep at random even, like a StrWild pop will give 1 str and just roll the dice to pick a second fep. Just an additional idea to strengthen non-domesticated meat and foragables.

[not_a_cat]

all wild meat and fruit and foragables should have a special tag on them. Maybe even a whole separate variant of feps

Probably same effect can be reached by plainly buffing FEP-modifiers of wild ingredients. It is sad to see that rare and hard-to-acquire wild honey totally ruins food's FEP while easy-to-massproduce domestic one is the best sweetener with really great FEP-modifiers.

[Zentetsuken]

all wild meat and fruit and foragables should have a special tag on them. Maybe even a whole separate variant of feps

Probably same effect can be reached by plainly buffing FEP-modifiers of wild ingredients. It is sad to see that rare and hard-to-acquire wild honey totally ruins food's FEP while easy-to-massproduce domestic one is the best sweetener with really great FEP-modifiers.

For something like wild honey, I think a straight up FEP buff alongside some additional bonus mechanic should be in order. Some foragable ingredients like this are a far cry from being worth the effort and need some serious love for sure.

[Archiplex]

nobody forages and nobody hunts

Do some people in this world have 600q animals or something? Hunting is still good for bones->bone glue

[Lyrroth]

why you all start to be so casual lol. you put effort into domesticated stuff and suddenly few people want to have same or better results just by only exiting base. stop that.

[Zentetsuken]

why you all start to be so casual lol. you put effort into domesticated stuff and suddenly few people want to have same or better results just by only exiting base. stop that.

Staying inside your base and running bots is 100 times more casual level playing. It requires no effort whatsoever to level domesticated crops and animals, and the purpose of all this talk is to reward actually playing LESS casually. Going out of your safe walls and putting yourself in actual danger.

What's more casual? Having 50 bee hives passively making infinite honey for you, harvesting with a shitty throwaway character within the safeness of your walls and spiraling the quality of the hives as all the resources within your base rise, OR going out and hunting wild bee hives defended by bees that actually try to kill you?

The idea is to make it so that after 2 months of playing the game, the game doesn't shrink in to a tiny, tiny simcity dwarffortress type game where you barely have to actually play, you are in no danger and you just let the game spiral numbers higher and higher for you infinitely. The idea is to actually reward playing the fucking game.

[Lyrroth]

yes, exiting a base, getting a clover/investing just in two stats called exploration and survival. heck. sure lets make it so we dont need a base because wilder stuff will be better at everything!

oh wait. how could i be so blind? surely building a base is casual. surely fetching all good resources like for example clay and if i have a good spot risking my life or inventory. oh wait right i dont need to constantly redo all this stuff so i can keep improving the quality so after a month or two i finally get first samples that are better in quality and keep redoing all this stuff to keep it going.

yes definitely just rising two stats and riding a horse is more non-casual than producing all necessary components. oh yeah domesticated animals bones surely get so high so quick that i dont have to find a good animal spot to get those sweet bones because why would if i dont leave base and my domesticated animals give me all of that... NOT.

oh yeah surely the fuel for baking or producing quality food from improvement stuff comes just out of thin air and i should put some effort to get out of base to get wild tree with +50% to any wild products ohh yeah

[Zentetsuken]

yes, exiting a base, getting a clover/investing just in two stats called exploration and survival. heck. sure lets make it so we dont need a base because wilder stuff will be better at everything!

oh wait. how could i be so blind? surely building a base is casual. surely fetching all good resources like for example clay and if i have a good spot risking my life or inventory. oh wait right i dont need to constantly redo all this stuff so i can keep improving the quality so after a month or two i finally get first samples that are better in quality and keep redoing all this stuff to keep it going.

yes definitely just rising two stats and riding a horse is more non-casual than producing all necessary components. oh yeah domesticated animals bones surely get so high so quick that i dont have to find a good animal spot to get those sweet bones because why would if i dont leave base and my domesticated animals give me all of that... NOT.

oh yeah surely the fuel for baking or producing quality food from improvement stuff comes just out of thin air and i should put some effort to get out of base to get wild tree with +50% to any wild products ohh yeah

It seems like you just haven't played this game exhaustively enough to understand that after only a month or two of dedicated playing in a group leaves you stuck with almost nothing to do but tasks that can be done by a bot for the entire rest of the game. People are literally forced to be casuals in that they don't have to actually play the game to be good, they can just run a bot. Taking a knarr to a clay spot once a month is not hard, claiming and building satellites on resources is not hard, almost every resource you could possibly need to leave your base for is not a chore or a big effort beyond possibly bones.

It's not even that wild ingredients need to be better, but it sure would be nice if they were even worth talking about, even worth mentioning, even worth considering. As far as wild resources go, beyond high quality bone and possibly 1 or 2 other resources, there are dozens and dozens of plants and foragables growing wild all over the place that serve absolutely zero purpose in the game. Oodles of content that is seemingly 100% without a use, not even on the table in comparison to domesticated goods.

If you are not interested in leveling the playing field between exploration, hunting and safe botting behind walls stay inside your walls, tons of people will do it anyways, but there are lots of people interested in this. The desire to reward going outside your walls at this point in the world has been brewing for many worlds now.

[Zampfeo]

why you all start to be so casual lol. you put effort into domesticated stuff and suddenly few people want to have same or better results just by only exiting base. stop that.

If anyone's a casual, it's the people abusing infinite-quality loops with an army of bots and NEETs. Within a month, they're so far ahead that no one poses any real threat. They're playing a PVE game whose only metric of power is the amount of time they wasted in it.

"Hardcore" my ass. Try Darkfall or Eve where player skill and a week of character development can trump a day 1 titan despite their time investment.

Most of the mechanics in HnH are fantastic, including the quality system, but uncapped vertical progression is the crux of most of its issues. Critiquing that does not make anyone a "casual". In fact, caps on vertical progression and a removal of quality spiraling would increase PVP due to a higher importance on resource node quality and more competition from players that can't spend 6+ hours a day on the game. More PVP = more hardcore. I personally enjoy HnH for the politics and PVP. Not because it's farmville 2.0.

Don't get me wrong, people who spend more time should be rewarded, but nowhere near the degree currently. A titan being able to take on 3 average players is fine; not 15. That's just easy-mode at that point. Nothing hardcore about it.

Regarding OP, I think disease would just add another convoluted mechanic. Adjusting hard/soft caps would accomplish the same thing in a simpler way. E.g. animals quality shouldn't be able to go much higher than the area's soil used to grow whatever food they're eating.

[Lyrroth]

It seems like you just haven't played this game exhaustively enough to understand that after only a month or two of dedicated playing in a group leaves you stuck with almost nothing to do but tasks that can be done by a bot for the entire rest of the game. People are literally forced to be casuals in that they don't have to actually play the game to be good, they can just run a bot. Taking a knarr to a clay spot once a month is not hard, claiming and building satellites on resources is not hard, almost every resource you could possibly need to leave your base for is not a chore or a big effort beyond possibly bones.

It's not even that wild ingredients need to be better, but it sure would be nice if they were even worth talking about, even worth mentioning, even worth considering. As far as wild resources go, beyond high quality bone and possibly 1 or 2 other resources, there are dozens and dozens of plants and foragables growing wild all over the place that serve absolutely zero purpose in the game. Oodles of content that is seemingly 100% without a use, not even on the table in comparison to domesticated goods.

If you are not interested in leveling the playing field between exploration, hunting and safe botting behind walls stay inside your walls, tons of people will do it anyways, but there are lots of people interested in this. The desire to reward going outside your walls at this point in the world has been brewing for many worlds now.

It seems like you just haven't played this game exhaustively enough to understand that almost everything at any stage can be botted. Bot is answer to all bad things even if not used. Taking a knarr to a clay spot once a month? bitch please. my node was so small that i had to go there once or twice a day and there was a high chance somebody theft / sieged my claim or outright tried to kill me there until i yelld and shared it. just because you had lucky bitch ass nigga node that nobody cared for it doesnt mean everybody had that luck, claiming and building satellites on resources is not hard, but fighting against people who do not care for vandal / low key fighter alts is hard, seems you never had to fight for a good resources, did you even had one before world was at peace?

thats called a content you dingus. every game has content that is relevant or not at certain stages in game and you cant have a game where everything will stay useful from start to end page of the game unless you wanna have so much balance troubles for little gain. plants and a lot of forages were made useful when gardening was introduced. now for some reason instead of focusing on how to make all better people keep yelling garden pots are bad same as people screamed and scratched to nerf fast travel and more locality and where did this get us huh? fastest playerbase drop in haven history and even veterans quits a lot.

dont be granger and dont put stuff in my mouth oh..... wait..... i take that back i dont wanna get curfed. but while i am interested in that it doesnt made me hoppity hoppy into first dick idea but rather would see expansion of all things instead of delete this because that is bad now. if ever i would be interested in herbs being expanded as medical stuff which would risk wounded guys leaving walls toget them but we all know alts/bots/trade would be used for that. bug collection and camomile is a great stepforward but where are you good ideas instead of bad ideas to keep improving?