PvP - Resistance

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

PvP - Resistance

Postby pppp » Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:58 pm

Consider adding resistance mechanics against combat openings.

Resistance would be added as gildings. Each opening colour would have it's own set of gildings. Some gildings may come with larger value for one colour and penalty to other colour.
The exact mechanics would be something like
<opening delta> = 100/(100+<resistance>) * <raw opening delta> where <raw opening delta> is the amount of opening added under current mechanics.

The reason is to create rock-paper-scissors game between combat deck and gear. It should be always possible to stack resistance against the <current most popular pvp deck>. This will create an element of surprise when the attacker does not necessarily know what kind of defense he faces. It is possible that of two gankers, one would attack to test resistances and the other would adapt his deck before aggroing. Perhaps some cooldown when changing decks will be needed.

Notes:
At least 50% of gildings should be destroyed if the person is koed to avoid strengthening the winner too much. Perhaps more if the character is killed. Chopping or stabbing someone should seriously damage his clothing after all.
Escaping stats and q issue still needs to be addressed.
One might consider giving certain weapons bonuses to selected openings, but I do not like this option because it will tend to create OP combinations with decks and will add nothing in terms of rock-paper-scissors game.
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Re: PvP - Resistance

Postby SnuggleSnail » Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:07 pm

Dying because I chose to be scissors one day when somebody else chose to be rock doesn't sound very fun. Neither does carrying 8 different sets of gildings everywhere I go. Heck, given how much effort making a good UA gilding set is with the amount of power-creep gildings have had, even making that many sets would be pretty cancerous.
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Re: PvP - Resistance

Postby pppp » Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:23 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote:Dying because I chose to be scissors one day when somebody else chose to be rock doesn't sound very fun. Neither does carrying 8 different sets of gildings everywhere I go. Heck, given how much effort making a good UA gilding set is with the amount of power-creep gildings have had, even making that many sets would be pretty cancerous.

Isn't the real problem here that it is you who would have to die sometimes rather than the other person ?
That boils down to <death is too costly> problem which effectively strangles pvp in this game. As I wrote elsewhere: you can't have a kill in a fight more often than it takes to grow a pvp capable char.
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Re: PvP - Resistance

Postby SnuggleSnail » Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:40 pm

If by this you're trying to suggest a rock/paper/scissors environment would have intermediate players being situationally competitive you're wrong. Likewise, I would suggest if your main problem is that making a combat character is too time consuming, perhaps the best way to fix this issue isn't to add additional prerequisites to being PVP ready, like multiple extra gilding sets, and making nomad affect your effectiveness in combat.
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Re: PvP - Resistance

Postby Fostik » Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:54 pm

Not sure about that.
As always, it will form another nonsense PvP mandatory, because cleave is red, you know.
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Re: PvP - Resistance

Postby pppp » Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:01 pm

The idea of rock=paper-scissors is to make <best setup that beats everyone> impossible. That implies that every side has to lose sometimes.

Regarding time: gildings can be bought while a character can not. That's orders of magnitude different time. Well, RMT and such, but still, a good tailor can easily mass produce gildings while mass growing alts for sale is different level of a chore.

SnuggleSnail wrote:nomad affect your effectiveness in combat.

Well, yeah, some discourage or even block to changing clothes while aggroed will be needed.


Fostik wrote:Not sure about that.
As always, it will form another nonsense PvP mandatory, because cleave is red, you know.

That's precisely the point, if everyone wears red resistance, then cleave is no longer the best choice, then blue will be best attack, then everyone wears red and blue and so on.

Edit: Perhaps resistance should apply to damage as well. It depends on actual numbers, how much difference it will make building red opening with resistances vs other colour with no resistances.
Last edited by pppp on Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PvP - Resistance

Postby Fostik » Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:17 pm

pppp wrote:That's precisely the point, if everyone wears red resistance, then cleave is no longer the best choice, then blue will be best attack, then everyone wears red and blue and so on.


I see, but to make this work - all attacks should be balanced. Instead of it - having red resist is mandatory, because cleave kicks your ass much harder than chop/sideswipe/whatnot
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Re: PvP - Resistance

Postby pppp » Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:20 pm

Answered as edit above while you posted:
pppp wrote:Edit: Perhaps resistance should apply to damage as well. It depends on actual numbers, how much difference it will make building red opening with resistances vs other colour with no resistances.
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Re: PvP - Resistance

Postby ctopolon4 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:21 pm

rock-paper-scissors most balanced system ever!
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Re: PvP - Resistance

Postby Granger » Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:43 pm

ctopolon4 wrote:rock-paper-scissors most balanced system ever!

In case of the cost to obtain each of the items being identical: yes.

pppp wrote:That boils down to <death is too costly> problem which effectively strangles pvp in this game. As I wrote elsewhere: you can't have a kill in a fight more often than it takes to grow a pvp capable char.

This.

Sadly the logical consequence of this, increase of the numbers being in need of a ceiling, seems to be incompatible with a good part of the forum members.
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