De-mystify, simplify, and de-spreadsheetify ingredient feps

[Smoopadoop]

Why:
Spreadsheets are not good gameplay. My proposed ideas for changing variable ingredients will make cooking good food more interesting, more fun, more accessible, and easier for people who don't have what it takes to read and update 300 spreadsheets whenever they take a step in this game.

What:
Every ingredient has an interesting FEP effect that applies to every dish it is cooked into. The effect is predetermined, unlike current gameplay where ingredients do different things when used in different recipes.
In addition, the ingredient effect is written in the item's tooltip, so everyone can easily understand what they're making.
Due to the effects not changing, that means they can be easily documented in the wiki.
Rarer ingredients may have more interesting effects that require more thinking and/or planning to be useful.
Spices might have some unique effects that can change the whole dish, leading to new and exciting strategies!

Hopefully, making an interesting dish might be like trying to build a good deck in a card game! With all sorts of interesting effects and synergies to experiment with, it might be very cool.
I tap 4 tuber lands, and cast Kvann, dealing 4 damage to your creature and giving me 3 Int FEPs

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Example Effects:
Adds [amount] of [attribute]
Removes [amount] of [attribute]
Replaces [attribute] with [other attribute] equal to x% of the original value
Converts x% of [attribute] to [attribute]
Converts x% of all attributes into [attribute]
Evenly redistributes [attribute] among all other attributes present in the dish
Evenly redistributes [attribute] among ALL attributes
Adds [amount] of [attribute], multiplied with the number of unique ingredients in the dish.
Adds [amount] of [attribute], multiplied by the number of different attributes already in the dish.
Increases energy by x%
Decreases hunger cost of dish by x%
Increases [attribute] depending on hunger cost of the dish

Optionally, this could be used to introduce some more interesting mechanics. Some simple examples could be:
Dish gains one "gourmet point" (usually from rare ingredients)
Dish gives [buff] equal to gourmet points
Dish gives [SHP healing] equal to gourmet points
Dish does [something interesting] equal to gourmet points

Ingredient examples, to get the creative juices flowing:
Barley flour: Replaces Constitution with Strength, equal to 50% of the original value, allowing some lesser-used baking recipes to be more interesting (like plain bread lmao)
Cavebulb: Converts 25% of all attributes to Psyche.
Stinging Nettles: Increases energy by 250%, because wildgrub usually has really high energy values compared to other foods.
Dusk Fern: Buffs stealth by (quality/2) for 10 minutes per gourmet point.
Truffle: Removes 10% of all attributes, but adds one gourmet point.

Feel free to come up with your own ingredient effects in the replies!
It might make it more likely for the devs to listen to us :^)

[jordancoles]

I don't have to time to go through your suggested alternatives rn but I am definitely in the camp that doesn't enjoy the unlimited combinations for everything.

In Legacy we had maybe 3-5 foods that were considered 'good' for each attribute and it was immediately clear what was expected of a player if they wanted to progress in a meaningful way.

Variable materials/spices have unlocked hundreds of potential combinations, most of which are ignored. It has still boiled down to 3-5 'good recipes' for each stat type. The only difference is that you need to already know what these foods and combinations are. If you don't have a community willing to share their recipes the only alternative is to do the research yourself. I would argue that this is not something that the vast majority of gamers are willing to do.

So I guess it depends what the devs are going for. Niche spreadsheet sim, or general appeal and retention

[Smoopadoop]

I don't have to time to go through your suggested alternatives rn but I am definitely in the camp that doesn't enjoy the unlimited combinations for everything.

In Legacy we had maybe 3-5 foods that were considered 'good' for each attribute and it was immediately clear what was expected of a player if they wanted to progress in a meaningful way.

Variable materials/spices have unlocked hundreds of potential combinations, most of which are ignored. It has still boiled down to 3-5 'good recipes' for each stat type. The only difference is that you need to already know what these foods and combinations are. If you don't have a community willing to share their recipes the only alternative is to do the research yourself. I would argue that this is not something that the vast majority of gamers are willing to do.

I think my ideas cut down on the "unlimited combination"-ness by making feps a lot more reliable/replicatable, and make it far easier to document which foods/combos are "good". And if you can't find documentation for it, it's a lot easier to work out on your own, or to find it from someone else, because it isn't Spreadsheet Hell anymore. It probably also adds to the number of "good" foods, which I think is only a good thing.

[jordancoles]

It probably also adds to the number of "good" foods, which I think is only a good thing.

The satiation system kind of makes having too many 'good' foods more of a headache rather than a blessing tbh. For the people who eat multiple times per day as their satiations recover it means another (usually complicated, truffled, or peppered) meal that they feel that they 'have to' prep to stay competitive. Since satiations are specific to the food type now, META is to eat every good food type that there is and the more you have in your rotation, the greater your edge is on other players over time.

It's sweaty to play that way, but the same people spreadsheeting these recipes are the ones doing that kind of stuff lol

It kinda just piles on more of the 'no-life' factor that this game has, which I'm not sure is a good thing since eventually you find yourself wanting your life back. I think the overly complicated food system is one of the things that overwhelms and pushes new players away while simultaneously making long-time players burn out quicker. I think more foods in the current system just translates into shorter worlds in terms of player activity (one of the reasons anyways)

[jordancoles]

I agree with you that things like mushrooms/spices/meat types etc should give predictable stats. Chives, for example, should always give an agility modifier.

[WowGain]

+1 to the idea of giving ingredients a consistent and reliable outcome to their usage in food

[Apocoreo]

+1 I need third party apps to play a cook, and that's just silly.

[HasseKebab]

Some combinations of food which you would intuitively think to be good for STR or whatever, ends up giving 50% more WIL and it feels retarded tbh.

[SnuggleSnail]

I would strongly agree the current system is too complicated/random, but your suggested is needlessly complicated as well

[Vantri]

This well-written suggestion resembles present alchemy mechanic, while goal is to make game easier because X, where X is...

While agreeing to "Spreadsheets are not good gameplay" following should be said:

• Spreadsheets use is personal decision.
• As of current amount of cooking materials and recipes, any remake will not provide less spreadsheets.
• Spreadsheet-dependable players will still use spreadsheets, because ill-mentality.
• Comparing to legacy, current cooking did quantum leap from resembling wagon rails.
• Obscure and hard to document system is slightly more secure against "universal solution to win".
• Unless player is a perfectionist, there's no need to remember and use all possible recipes.

Emancipate yourself from Spreadsheet Hell, enjoy the good game and ride Odin's horse.