Ending cosmetic item extortion

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Ending cosmetic item extortion

Postby Sevenless » Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:18 pm

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As funny as "Hat or Die" is to some, I think the vast majority of players can agree this activity is a unique and unfortunate blemish on our game. Haven is the only place where I've ever heard of that has regular extortion of paid cosmetic items from vulnerable players to power players. Still, lets keep with "hate the game not the player" and try to figure out why hat or die exists in haven, and how we can prevent or make it much harder to do.

To start with there's an interesting question: why doesn't "Venmo me 5$ or die" exist? Why do we only rarely hear about "Give me hats or we siege your hermitage"? It's important to understand that hat or die is not a scam, it's a predatory high pressure sales pitch. Much like being overwhelmed and pushed into buying a vehicle you can't afford at a car dealership, hat or die is a high pressure "trade me X$ worth of hat to keep 60% of your LP/FEPs" that only works in a specific environment while forcing people to make quick decisions.

In the real world there are protections against predatory sales pitches that we can implement into haven without distorting gameplay or overly interfere with legitimate hat trading.


Giving players room to breath

Hat or die is a split second decision players are forced to make, and there's a simple way to remove them from that situation. Hats can no longer be transferred in game, only through a new ui (sorry loftar, I know this sucks) that can only be done if the account is at the login screen. This immediately removes the "split second decision" as your character can't be in danger (Outlaws make their own choices) when you're doing the hat transfer. I would also like to see an option to "login at hearth fire" to help players deal with being camped added to the login screen, since "I'll log to give you the hat" => "logging back in 1hr later without sending the hat to run into bored pvpers camping you" is easily avoidable with that feature.


Cooling off period

The other easily implemented protection would be making hat transfers take 24 hours to complete, with an easy/visible cancellation option available. Perhaps also a reminder that a hat is in the process of being transferred in the normal login screen as well. Legitimate hat trading will be slowed down, but otherwise it's no different since ultimately trust and asynchronous handing over of goods is how it works right now anyway.

~~~
I'd really like to see this issue fixed, I've been mildly ashamed of haven ever since this started. I know this takes meaningful amount of devs hours to fix, but I personally think it's important.
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Re: Ending cosmetic item extortion

Postby Nightdawg » Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:31 pm

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Just don't give your hats away to those mouth breathing orangutans. They can still bash your base even after they take your hat lol.

Inb4 "but a 60 year old lady playing farmville bro":
> This is a full loot PVP game, not farmville.
> If you give your hat away like that, you're part of the problem. The hats are literally unlootable. They can't take it unless you literally hand it over. Handing it over isn't even "just dropping it on the ground", you literally have to right click them while holding the hat on your cursor.
> Full. Loot. PVP.

Real chads bash the sprucecap bases without asking for their hats anyway lmao.
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Re: Ending cosmetic item extortion

Postby Vraatjuh » Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:39 pm

Wholeheartedly agree that something has to be done about this. Being extorted for paid cosmetics is ridiculous and for all I care should just be punnishable by banhammer. Especially for new players I can understand why they see this as their only way out in that situation. And quit afterwards because it's complete bullshite of course.
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Re: Ending cosmetic item extortion

Postby Nexit » Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:41 pm

that's pretty funny. poor lady
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Re: Ending cosmetic item extortion

Postby Sevenless » Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:43 pm

Nightdawg wrote:https: //c.tenor.com/mRRUvMJ-MUkAAAAC/didnt-read.gif

Just don't give your hats away to those mouth breathing orangutans. They can still bash your base even after they take your hat lol.


Contrary to popular belief, I'm not an idiot. I'm well aware that a single KO in pvp isn't gonna kill me in most cases so long as I manage my wounds properly.

That said: I will always try to defend others through modifying gameplay mechanics if there are reasonable ways to do so.
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Re: Ending cosmetic item extortion

Postby VDZ » Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:27 pm

Expect significant resistance to this. People are making actual, real-life money off of this so some have a real interest in keeping things the way they are.

Personally, I fully agree and I think your suggestions could definitely work to drastically reduce this. For me, the issue is less 'poor newbies getting griefed :(' (because that's going to happen either way, though this is probably the most vicious form at the moment), but rather that the system currently encourages this behavior by linking it to real-life rewards (you can earn money outside the game by hat-or-die-ing people in-game). This is an external factor distorting in-game behavior, in a way that arguably damages the game. PvP is always a precarious balance, and many argue that even without external incentives the ease with which weaker players can be dominated discourages a lot of players from continuing to play, but at the very least it's not healthy if gankers are specifically incentivized to pick on the weakest players to gain external rewards.
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Re: Ending cosmetic item extortion

Postby blocker2 » Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:01 pm

Great words and I can sympathize and even agree with some of your points. Simple question though, what is stopping the person from telling the extortionists to eat shit and not give them anything?
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Re: Ending cosmetic item extortion

Postby Massa » Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:30 pm

won't someone think of the ozzys who didn't get to kill the old lady first???
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Re: Ending cosmetic item extortion

Postby wolf1000wolf » Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:53 pm

+1 to OP post.
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Re: Ending cosmetic item extortion

Postby shubla » Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:07 pm

better suggestion: ban problematic people

this problem is not widespread there are literally handful of people doing it because no consequences because devs are stupid
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