Indiscriminate wanton murdering deterrent

[Nocturnal-Rainbows]

One of these days you're going to have to ask yourself these questions J&L.
Do you want this game to grow? Do you want players to not resolve issues diplomatically and instead to just run around killing everything and anything they see? Do you want to continue to allow PKers free reign to do literally anything, unimpeded, with impunity?
Right now, how the game works is like this. PKers go out and they simply slaughter anybody they come across. They can do this because there is no threat to them. None. None whatsoever. They know that most people have 0 chance against them, combat is too complex that players who don't have a vet teaching them how to play won't even have a clue how outmatched they are vs people who do know what they're doing.

So, it falls to you guys to make what will be an 'unpopular' decision amongst the PK loving audience that this game has, of which most of this forums most frequent posters are those very people. Same with discord too, they're the most vocal there, so however you look at this it's going to be met with them doing everything they can to stop any of these changes from happening.
I like PvP. I like PKing too. But I also like diplomacy, and I don't believe you made this game with the intention of PKers just running around and slaughtering everybody.
It's time to put into place some deterrents. Do you know the number 1 reason why the civilized world isn't filled with murderers? You'd be naive to think that it's because people are all just good hearted. No, the number 1 reason why murder is rare is because it really fucking sucks to get caught murdering. Like really badly.
Murder in H&H should be a last resort or something that you'd be willing to do to get rid of somebody who is really worth the downsides of going through with it.

So let's discuss some ways to make murder not so common.
Here's some examples I came up with. Bear in mind if your first thought is "Wow those sound like they really suck!" well obviously, that's the point of a deterrent.
1. In the case of Murder, instead of giving somebody the usual Red Handed debuff you give them a Murderer debuff (Could call it 'On the run') that forbids them from using their hearth teleporting for the ENTIRE duration that it takes for a Murder scent to disappear.
What does this accomplish? Well for one it just really fucking sucks to have. Everybody uses their hearth teleporting quite liberally but also, it'll keep these guys on edge when they do decide to leave their walls as they can be tracked down and will have fewer options of escape. Also, after they've committed the murder there's no simple 'wait 20 minutes, hearth home to safety' shit, they're traveling home manually which runs the risk of them running into other hostiles and they can't just simply hearth out to escape.
The more I think of this the more I like it as a solid deterrent.
2. For the love of God do something with Nidbanes. Want an idea? Sure, why the fuck not, I'll give you an idea (keep in mind that this suggestion, nay entire post, is centralized around MURDER, though at some point I would like to see even running around and KOing people have some sort of actual effective negative associated with it too because that's an issue too, albeit a smaller one).
Nidbanes were created to give noobs some way to enact justice against players who, let's face it, they will never in a million years be able to best. PKers said it wasn't fair if these are too strong because - "m-muh character shouldn't get fucked by some shitter finding a mandrake and a bit of wax". I say if you're running around murdering everybody without thought or reason you should be punished for such actions. How do we balance it though? Because I agree a single murder shouldn't be punishable by death, that's retarded and Murder may as well be removed in that case. Murder serves a purpose in this game. Killing an enemy faction who you don't like should remain a thing. Killing them and putting them behind is one of the many reasons why Murder should remain, we don't want to kill the brutal nature of the game after all, we merely want to put some brakes on the wanton destruction of mindlessly killing everybody you see without any intention of interacting with them in some other way.
Here's the proposal...
Every time somebody murders, if they murder again within the 10 days of their murder scent being a thing, they gain another stack of some debuff. Perhaps the same debuff I mentioned in point number 1 that stops you from hearthing home. For each of these stacks they have another nidbane will be summoned when usually one would. All for the same cost btw. So if somebody has killed 4 people within those 10 days they'll have 4 stacks and so if somebody picks their scent up and Nidbanes them, then 4 Nidbanes will spawn and head over to the murderer instead of the usual 1. 1 Nidbane ain't shit. Getting multiple waves of these spooky ghouls sent your way, however? Better hope you have some good solid help otherwise you're fucked.
If even this proves too easy to handle for big groups, maybe big groups that spam AoE attacks, then just fuck them over by making them immune to AoE or some shit, the worlds your oyster here.
>B-b-but that sounds too unfair!
I think that if you want to go around killing people who have literally no chance against you, for no benefit of your own (because they were never a threat to you and they won't have any gear you want) then you should be willing to face the consequences. This change ONLY fucks over serial killers. Some guy who kills one person every now and then to defend himself isn't going to get screwed over by this. He won't even be affected by this change at all actually. This is aimed at people using their characters to run around and kill everybody indiscriminately for no fucking reason other than to kill them.

There you go. Two ideas. Let the tears flow. I'm going to pat myself on the back and take a page out of audiosmurfs book tbqhwy by +1ing my own post because by God I think it's a fucking excellent idea if I do say so myself.

[wonder-ass]

One of the biggest reasons why murder doesnt have any extreme debuff attached to it is because of how easy it is to get someone to murder an alt by accident.

Tho i agree with your post with pkers needing a nerf.

[Shitten_DuPants]

holy yap, not readin that dissertation

[Massa]

i am a holy warrior who stands steadfast on the front line of these threads to once again call you a bitch

my vigil is eternal

[vatas]

One of the biggest reasons why murder doesnt have any extreme debuff attached to it is because of how easy it is to get someone to murder an alt by accident.

Tho i agree with your post with pkers needing a nerf.

Could add a toggle (murderous rage or something new) that is required to deal a killing blow, and you always KO instead. However we would now end with new problems:
1) "Reverse-pickpocket" -leeches into the victim - best case scenario, they have no idea about that and think they died to bleed damage from attack that KOd them.
2) Part of the reasoning why Murder is easy, is that otherwise people could just make nuisance alts that you can't get rid off without disproportionate cost.

Possible change:
-Murder is considered a far more heinous crime.
-Possibly a separate scent to represent "you've slain an enemy in battle" if devs trust they can identify such cases (related to a change below)
You have three "stances" for PvP:
"Repel the invaders!" - people who "lose" to you in combat are evicted to their HFs, with little to no penalty to you.
"Skirmish or smth" - works mostly like it does now, except there's additional factors to not deal a killing blow that bypasses KO protection (unless a nuisance alt is repeatedly getting up to trash talk you or smth)
"Murderous Rage" - instead of forsaking your own KO protection and gaining Grievous Damage buff, the combat system now works like it usually does.

Rough draft: "change stance" -conditions:
-not in combat
-channel for a minute
-combat or moving will cancel the channel

Obvious exploit: have people in "Repel the invaders" -stance create Openings (or Skirmish if the first one is reserved only near a friendly claim) and have a team of "executioners" who run the murder stance.

Maybe this is more "food for thought" -kind of post than an actionable suggestion? At least murder alts would need some stats to deal the killing blow (could further reinforce this by forcibly swapping characters to "Skirmish" if they attack a target who is too strong for any of their attribute/ability to "normalize"), but this is already the case? Although need for them is reduced by the weaksauce repercussions of Murder.

[Vraatjuh]

Maybe an implementation of some sort of moral system could work. If you attack/kill people your moral will decrease and make your name a shade of red. The more you kill, the more red your name will become. Upon a certain treshhold you are considered evil to the gods and other people are free to kill you without moral retribution. You can regain moral by for example making offerings to the gods. This way pk'ing and pvp is still available but the mass slaughter of randoms is a bit more consequential. You can give villages the option to allow red players inside their 'walls' to create safe zones for them.

[Okocim]

All ideas around punishing players that kill, are bad ideas.
It's simply too easy to create multiple alts and force someone to kill them.

The only other solution is to somehow protect players.
I'v posted my idea of possible solution here: Combat Move "Surrender"

[Halbertz]

One of these days you're going to have to ask yourself these questions J&L.
Do you want this game to grow? Do you want players to not resolve issues diplomatically and instead to just run around killing everything and anything they see? Do you want to continue to allow PKers free reign to do literally anything, unimpeded, with impunity?
Right now, how the game works is like this. PKers go out and they simply slaughter anybody they come across. They can do this because there is no threat to them. None. None whatsoever. They know that most people have 0 chance against them, combat is too complex that players who don't have a vet teaching them how to play won't even have a clue how outmatched they are vs people who do know what they're doing.

So, it falls to you guys to make what will be an 'unpopular' decision amongst the PK loving audience that this game has, of which most of this forums most frequent posters are those very people. Same with discord too, they're the most vocal there, so however you look at this it's going to be met with them doing everything they can to stop any of these changes from happening.
I like PvP. I like PKing too. But I also like diplomacy, and I don't believe you made this game with the intention of PKers just running around and slaughtering everybody.
It's time to put into place some deterrents. Do you know the number 1 reason why the civilized world isn't filled with murderers? You'd be naive to think that it's because people are all just good hearted. No, the number 1 reason why murder is rare is because it really fucking sucks to get caught murdering. Like really badly.
Murder in H&H should be a last resort or something that you'd be willing to do to get rid of somebody who is really worth the downsides of going through with it.

So let's discuss some ways to make murder not so common.
Here's some examples I came up with. Bear in mind if your first thought is "Wow those sound like they really suck!" well obviously, that's the point of a deterrent.
1. In the case of Murder, instead of giving somebody the usual Red Handed debuff you give them a Murderer debuff (Could call it 'On the run') that forbids them from using their hearth teleporting for the ENTIRE duration that it takes for a Murder scent to disappear.
What does this accomplish? Well for one it just really fucking sucks to have. Everybody uses their hearth teleporting quite liberally but also, it'll keep these guys on edge when they do decide to leave their walls as they can be tracked down and will have fewer options of escape. Also, after they've committed the murder there's no simple 'wait 20 minutes, hearth home to safety' shit, they're traveling home manually which runs the risk of them running into other hostiles and they can't just simply hearth out to escape.
The more I think of this the more I like it as a solid deterrent.
2. For the love of God do something with Nidbanes. Want an idea? Sure, why the fuck not, I'll give you an idea (keep in mind that this suggestion, nay entire post, is centralized around MURDER, though at some point I would like to see even running around and KOing people have some sort of actual effective negative associated with it too because that's an issue too, albeit a smaller one).
Nidbanes were created to give noobs some way to enact justice against players who, let's face it, they will never in a million years be able to best. PKers said it wasn't fair if these are too strong because - "m-muh character shouldn't get fucked by some shitter finding a mandrake and a bit of wax". I say if you're running around murdering everybody without thought or reason you should be punished for such actions. How do we balance it though? Because I agree a single murder shouldn't be punishable by death, that's retarded and Murder may as well be removed in that case. Murder serves a purpose in this game. Killing an enemy faction who you don't like should remain a thing. Killing them and putting them behind is one of the many reasons why Murder should remain, we don't want to kill the brutal nature of the game after all, we merely want to put some brakes on the wanton destruction of mindlessly killing everybody you see without any intention of interacting with them in some other way.
Here's the proposal...
Every time somebody murders, if they murder again within the 10 days of their murder scent being a thing, they gain another stack of some debuff. Perhaps the same debuff I mentioned in point number 1 that stops you from hearthing home. For each of these stacks they have another nidbane will be summoned when usually one would. All for the same cost btw. So if somebody has killed 4 people within those 10 days they'll have 4 stacks and so if somebody picks their scent up and Nidbanes them, then 4 Nidbanes will spawn and head over to the murderer instead of the usual 1. 1 Nidbane ain't shit. Getting multiple waves of these spooky ghouls sent your way, however? Better hope you have some good solid help otherwise you're fucked.
If even this proves too easy to handle for big groups, maybe big groups that spam AoE attacks, then just fuck them over by making them immune to AoE or some shit, the worlds your oyster here.
>B-b-but that sounds too unfair!
I think that if you want to go around killing people who have literally no chance against you, for no benefit of your own (because they were never a threat to you and they won't have any gear you want) then you should be willing to face the consequences. This change ONLY fucks over serial killers. Some guy who kills one person every now and then to defend himself isn't going to get screwed over by this. He won't even be affected by this change at all actually. This is aimed at people using their characters to run around and kill everybody indiscriminately for no fucking reason other than to kill them.

There you go. Two ideas. Let the tears flow. I'm going to pat myself on the back and take a page out of audiosmurfs book tbqhwy by +1ing my own post because by God I think it's a fucking excellent idea if I do say so myself.

Sneed yourself VDZ

[Faravidus]

[Ozzy123]

they troll is a player who play pvp not like me pve but he dont play this world
so tell u if u want pvp i can ask him to play with you pvp
post screens for your racisam talk now
and for your ciber terorisam to ask items who cost irl monsy for items in game