A frank discussion on pvp

[overtyped]

With the likely possibility of certain nerfs, I would like to talk about what the SoS hatred is all about, and why.
First I want to say that this has never about SoS, being too op, it's only about answering the question of whether ko's should be mainstay, or should killing be the mainstay way to play. When I say kill, I am referring to the meta of going for 100% openings with opp knocks to setup a 1 hit ko or kill.

Im my opinion, pvp ahs been the healthiest when ko'ing is mainstay, and this world is proof of that. We have had more pvpers comparative to the population numbers than ever before.

Here's what non pvpers don't understand, noobs who enter pvp already drop like flies, and SoS with shields at least allowed them to fight back, even if they can't get kills. Fighting against SoS made it very hard to setup the standard kito, oppknocks, 100% opening cleave ko, because the aoe effect of SoS made it hard for them to get close enough to do it without being shreded.

When has a noob faction ever had a presence in pvp before W15? It hasn't, and it's because the answer to ko and kill, has so far always been kill. Noobs have low hp, they can't participate in the KILL game, because they are the most likely ones to DIE.

That is why I said this has never been about SoS.

If you want my opinion on what should be done. Do whatever you want with SoS, but change other things that make the meta lean towards Ko's rather than kills.

Opp knocks, should be gone. It's the reason b12s can so easily murder you, and can't be balanced, since the design idea itself means you can easily get 100% opening, allowing you to setup a death blow on a noob without accidentally knocking them out first.

This move is why even if SoS caused 50% opening, b12s would still be used, and why they are always going to be the first weapon of pvp factions.

Hypothetically, if Opp knocks is gone, and SoS is gone, and b12s and cutblades cause only half opening when attacking with both unarmed and melee attacks, what do you think is likely to happen?

For starters, those weapons would obviously be relegated to only group fights, and used to support shield users by being a big threat.

The second, is the fact that, during the b12 meta days, before SOS, the side with more numbers would just rush in because there was no worry about aoe. Without SoS, no other strategy was good. However, after SoS, even a smaller group could hold back a larger one, and that's because the threat of SoS's aoe, prevented them from just rushing you and not respecting the weaker opponant.

This has been amazingly healthy for the game, and I would like to see it more, and thats why I propose that all weapons should cause aoe. We have had 15 years of zerging, so how about we keep combat based around respecting the weaker side like we have had with SoS?

Sos can be nerfed/removed for all I care, opp knocks can go away, and killing can become the rarity, rather than the norm.

I would like to hear why people think this is healthy or unhealthy for pvp.

[DonVelD]

OP is blowing this out of proportion. In order to kill someone you have to correctly guess their hp to chip them down in order to make it so their hhp is below 80%, then a cleave deals up to 60% hhp (only on murderous rage which is very very risky) and then concussion damage deals up to 20%.

You know how hard it is to actually pull off? You rely on your GUESS on how much hp they have, actually pull off a 100% cleave (they can Zig-zag ruse down to 20% openings) AND you pray that the concussion rolls for 20%.

Most of the times the person screws up entirely and dies because of unrelated reasons (AKA drowning etc)

Another reason could also be that the person completely doesn't know the combat mechanics. Is that to be blamed on the PVPer?

Even more so: You can still kill with SoS, its still very good, but in a better place.

There should be an ingame tutorial instead.

PS Its a message to Jorb/Loftar. I won't argue with OP because it has been talked about multiple times and the OP will just say "no youre lying" every time.

He doesnt know any better anyway.

[Nightdawg]

You... can... just oppknock and SoS someone too... and... kill them.

The SoS complaints were never about not being able to kill someone.

[Dawidio123]

Also Bob Dole is clearly not intelligent enough to understand the deep nuance of combat, his friend Robben even said he is too dumb to actually hold a conversation. It's okay Bob, at least you can be harnessed for good in other ways and we all love you for it.

[Nightdawg]

I mean we got really dope changes like combat equalisation to even the planefield and make combat more skill based rather than "look at me I spend 20 hours per day grinding my stats, I kito you for 50 red haha".

I just wanted a small nerf for SoS so people don't just press 2 buttons in combat, cause that just takes all the skill out of it...

Idk why you're thinking everyone wants b12's to be the only reliable weapon.

[overtyped]

You... can... just oppknock and SoS someone too... and... kill them.

The SoS complaints were never about not being able to kill someone.

SoS is 100% weapon dmg, and cutblades cause less dmg. Cleave is 150% weapon dmg, and b12 causes more dmg.

This conversation isn't even about SoS. Its about why I think the meta should give every weapon and ability an aoe, and why i think combat should lean towards ko's rather than kills.

I would like this conversation to be about that topic.

[HasseKebab]

aoe moves are a stupid idea, we should move to more single target moves like cleave instead of stride towards aoe lol tbh. Cleave right now is stupidly strong as well, it should have an equivalent like Valorous strike for swords in legacy tbh.

[Nightdawg]

You... can... just oppknock and SoS someone too... and... kill them.

The SoS complaints were never about not being able to kill someone.

SoS is 100% weapon dmg, and cutblades cause less dmg. Cleave is 150% weapon dmg, and b12 causes more dmg.

b12 can't hit up to 5 people for up to 750% total damage in one move, with a shorter cooldown.

[DonVelD]

With 2ip cost to add to that.

[Nightdawg]

2 IP that gets restored back in one defense move, to add to that.