parry and shield should cost coins + new melee defences

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: parry and shield should cost coins + new melee defences

Postby jordancoles » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:25 pm

Potjeh wrote:Way too much. IMO all that's needed is slight cooldown reduction on UA defences to make it comparable to MC. I was going to suggest making Parry green/red, but then Steal Thunder would just completely shut down MC builds :/

Uhh mc offensive moves have the longest cooldowns in the game. If they didn't have at least 1 short cooldown defense then it would be a dead class and if UA had shorter defensive cooldowns an mc fighter would literally never deal damage

Steal thunder hits yellow and blue, it would hit to shield up instead of parry and the green and red from your proposed parry would live on through the steal thunder spam. Shield up would likely tank 2 thunders, making the move pretty shitty to run of you're mainly mc because you'd never get a sting, chop or cleave in which is actually the only damage you have.

Pls stop potjeh
Last edited by jordancoles on Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: parry and shield should cost coins + new melee defences

Postby Potjeh » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:27 pm

And you never deal damage vs an MC fighter. Hence the making them comparable part.
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Re: parry and shield should cost coins + new melee defences

Postby jordancoles » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:30 pm

Potjeh wrote:And you never deal damage vs an MC fighter. Hence the making them comparable part.

Yes you do oh my goddd

If you're running UA and they're mc you can tank their shit so easily because at max they have 2 offensives and they're very predictable colours. Their attacks also have like double the cooldown of UA moves with much more damage

A UA fighter can beat an mc fighter in a 1v1, mc is mainly a defense-breaker in group fights imo
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Re: parry and shield should cost coins + new melee defences

Postby Potjeh » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:34 pm

Which UA attack is faster than Parry?
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Re: parry and shield should cost coins + new melee defences

Postby rye130 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:43 pm

Steal thunder
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Re: parry and shield should cost coins + new melee defences

Postby Zeler » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:46 pm

You also need like 300 STR to get through armour.
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Re: parry and shield should cost coins + new melee defences

Postby Potjeh » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:48 pm

If you're just punching & chopping you can block ST. And yeah, that's a big restriction on offensive, but it keeps your Parry always ready.
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Re: parry and shield should cost coins + new melee defences

Postby rye130 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:51 pm

Potjeh wrote:If you're just punching & chopping you can block ST. And yeah, that's a big restriction on offensive, but it keeps your Parry always ready.


And if someone is punching and chopping I can run a yellow defense and never have to worry about them. The combat system might not be perfect right now, but most things have a counter and any big changes will probably cause more harm than good IMO.
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Re: parry and shield should cost coins + new melee defences

Postby dzielny_wojownik » Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:01 pm

steal thunder has a major disadvantage - you cannot use it when your opponent doesnt have coins therefore it makes it a shit move in MANY cases from my experience.

MC:
there needs to be new melee attack moves with 25-30 cooldown that wouldn't damage the oponent, but it would be just used to take off defences. if shield and parry would cost coins, which would make more sense, then mc would need a new defence that compensates for it, such as blue+green or yellow+blue with low cooldown
UA:
ua needs some new defences such as green+blue / yellow+blue with 25-30 cooldown to make the ua build useable and a new unarmed attack that would be able to take off blue and green+blue or yellow + blue defence. but the defence should have lower defence weight like 0.8 or 0.7 of UA


ua+mc: need more moves like zigzag, that is reducing cooldown. A idea - a stance that boosts your damage if it is active it could use green or red defence but has a cooldown just like zigzag and would cost coins. These moves make combat more flexible and diversity, ones will be sacrificing damage for speed and ones will be sacrificing speed for damage. i am sure there can be thought of more moves like that

idk what do you think? i am sure there are more ways to balance the shit out, so you would be actually able to use other weapons than just steel sword
you can play around with cooldown+defence colors + weights to balance the shit out
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Re: parry and shield should cost coins + new melee defences

Postby Potjeh » Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:50 pm

I'd like to see some hard counter cards for the bread and butter defences. For example, Riposte attack card that deals no damage and has a medium cooldown (slower than Sting), but extremely short cooldown if it breaks a Parry. Against shield maybe some axe move to give the other weapons some love, for example a Hack that uses 3x weight against Shield Up. Speaking of other weapons, spear badly needs some love. Maybe something like Poke, a short cooldown half weight attack that costs some IP so it's not too spammable.
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