Critique post: Stat Cap

[APXEOLOG]

1. Make a combat system where human skills matter a lot more than character stats. So the one who made over 500 actual PVP fights(at least duels with friends) would be able to kill 2-3 people who have made 50 PVPs given equal characters.

I love your idea man. I am also pertty sure devs love it too. But it sounds like if i will create a thread in C&I called "Make the game better!" without any solution.
Humans skills in computer games is not like in real life, where you should train for the whole life (but it mostly because of physical state if we speak about real fights). In a computer game you have limited amount of rules, as soon as you understand all combinations of this rules you are done. The complexity of the combat system only determines how many time do you need to spend to become "master". Since this is MMORPG you should always remember that this knowledge is not personal, you can share it (like it was with "best deck for hafen combat", or like it is in any other MMORPG game, for example proper skill build/rotation for any class in WoW). There are some solutions to make the combat unique for each character, for example randomly-generated skills based on some archetype for every character, but this kind of combat system is hard to create with proper balance, and they also have some downsides.

2. Make combat system where combat assistance bots are less of value (this is really hard - banning for bots is waay easier)

This is pointless if the (1) is achieved. You will need AI to get the real value from the bots in this case.

3. Make leveling benefits so unlimited stat and quality character (stat 20000 and q300) has 50% chance to win against 2 players of same skill with stat 100 and q 40 and 10% chance to win against 3 such players. So there is a reason to grind. But reason to get more allies is waaaay bigger.

I'm not sure what are those % means. You want a random-based combat, or skill-based?

4- the simplest one. Make the growing stat cap at least. Add +10-+30 to all caps each week. This way people would have to do PVE all the time but botters would not get huge advantage.

This is mostly equal to the non-stat-cap

[ekzarh]

Thanks for detailed response

I love your idea man. I am also pertty sure devs love it too. But it sounds like if i will create a thread in C&I called "Make the game better!" without any solution.

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=50418

2. Make combat system where combat assistance bots are less of value (this is really hard - banning for bots is waay easier)

This is pointless if the (1) is achieved. You will need AI to get the real value from the bots in this case.

Disagree - L2 had a rather nice combat system (6/10 I'd say but even a healer on bot behind you would make you OP against any single player. So 1 and 2 really are connected but 2 is not pointless

3. Make leveling benefits so unlimited stat and quality character (stat 20000 and q300) has 50% chance to win against 2 players of same skill with stat 100 and q 40 and 10% chance to win against 3 such players. So there is a reason to grind. But reason to get more allies is waaaay bigger.

I'm not sure what are those % means. You want a random-based combat, or skill-based?

It is a sort of statistics. I mean that as a result of thousand combats in each example 500 (and 100) combats would end with person A victory.
Any PVP has limitless amount of factors and possibilities so gamedev can't look at the combat system as a whole while looking at the single combat. Gamedev has to set up some goals (eg char level 70 would win 2 chars lvl50 50 times out of 100) and see how your system meets that goal

4- the simplest one. Make the growing stat cap at least. Add +10-+30 to all caps each week. This way people would have to do PVE all the time but botters would not get huge advantage.

This is mostly equal to the non-stat-cap

This goes separate of all others. Temporary solution. 1 day to implement, give at least some king of compromise until major redesign is done

[APXEOLOG]

Disagree - L2 had a rather nice combat system (6/10 I'd say but even a healer on bot behind you would make you OP against any single player. So 1 and 2 really are connected but 2 is not pointless

I didn't play it, but i heard that items where OP there, and you could go like 1 vs 10 if you have better items.

[Potjeh]

In a computer game you have limited amount of rules, as soon as you understand all combinations of this rules you are done.

So why don't you go play pro Starcraft in Korea? It pays pretty well, and chicks there are all over pro players. Or hell, just go for the classics and become a pro chess player, chess has a much more limited set of rules than most computer games.

[shubla]

In a computer game you have limited amount of rules, as soon as you understand all combinations of this rules you are done.

So why don't you go play pro Starcraft in Korea? It pays pretty well, and chicks there are all over pro players. Or hell, just go for the classics and become a pro chess player, chess has a much more limited set of rules than most computer games.

Rules for chess are limited and simple but its very complicated as a whole.

[ekzarh]

I would appreciate to receive at least 'read' notification from dev teams as the reward for my efforts

[jorb]

I read everything. I think you present the dilemmas as being a bit more fixed than I think they actually are. I think the balance between deep grind and pvp balance can quite possibly be attacked in more asymmetrical ways. You otherwise raise a lot of the same concerns I have. Thank you for your post.

[ekzarh]

I read everything. I think you present the dilemmas as being a bit more fixed than I think they actually are. I think the balance between deep grind and pvp balance can quite possibly be attacked in more asymmetrical ways. You otherwise raise a lot of the same concerns I have. Thank you for your post.

Thanks Looking forward to see the assymetrical ways you are talking about. You've piqued my interest.

[Ozzy123]

1. Make a combat system where human skills matter a lot more than character stats. So the one who made over 500 actual PVP fights(at least duels with friends) would be able to kill 2-3 people who have made 50 PVPs given equal characters.

Maybe just make everyone die when im on the screen cuz im the most experienced playa ok thx