Screw The Botters

[loftar]

horizontal asymptote[...]
330 = 100%
3300 = 200%
33000 = 300%
330000 = 400%

P.S. Yeah with an asymptote i mean...is the current curve a logaritm with no asymptote at all?

I see the maths peanut gallery is out in force tonight. The logarithmic functions have no asymptote, horizontal or not.

The devs already implemented things so that with 200 ua you will have only 16% disadvantage to a player with 400 ua.

The fourth-root function for combat deltas was in fact implemented so that the actual effect of the combat deltas scale with the square-root of the character values, rather than linearly, as using the square-root for the effect would imply. By that I mean the following:
Consider character A with N points of UA, who fights B, with M points of UA. Let the function that determines the effect (the amount of opening created when hit) be f(r), where r is the ratio between the attack weight and the block weight, or N/M when A hits B, assuming their weights are their respective values in UA. The actually interesting effect, then, isn't actually f(r), but rather f(r) / f(1/r), because that is the proportional difference between A and B after each has hit the other once. Insert any polynomial (such as the fourth- or square-root) for f, and you will see that the effect is f²(r)*. In other words, if f(r) = √r, then the actual effect scales linearly. If it's ∜r, then the actual effect scales as the square root. In the latter case, if N = 2M, and A and B hit each other once, then the ratio between the openings they've got from that is ~1.41.

* Proving this is left as an exercise for the reader. ^^

[xTrainx]

horizontal asymptote[...]
330 = 100%
3300 = 200%
33000 = 300%
330000 = 400%

P.S. Yeah with an asymptote i mean...is the current curve a logaritm with no asymptote at all?

I see the maths peanut gallery is out in force tonight. The logarithmic functions have no asymptote, horizontal or not.

The devs already implemented things so that with 200 ua you will have only 16% disadvantage to a player with 400 ua.

The fourth-root function for combat deltas was in fact implemented so that the actual effect of the combat deltas scale with the square-root of the character values, rather than linearly, as using the square-root for the effect would imply. By that I mean the following:
Consider character A with N points of UA, who fights B, with M points of UA. Let the function that determines the effect (the amount of opening created when hit) be f(r), where r is the ratio between the attack weight and the block weight, or N/M when A hits B, assuming their weights are their respective values in UA. The actually interesting effect, then, isn't actually f(r), but rather f(r) / f(1/r), because that is the proportional difference between A and B after each has hit the other once. Insert any polynomial (such as the fourth- or square-root), and you will see that the effect is f²(r)*. In other words, if f(r) = √r, then the actual effect scales linearly. If it's ∜r, then the actual effect scales as the square root.

* Proving this is left as an exercise for the reader. ^^

will this go in the exam next week?

[maze]

....To some extents, botters are a known thing and is still in place because a war at botting is a waste of time.....

we've taken steps and MANNNNNNYY step over the years to prevent super botting. saying its a waste of time is a slap in the face to world 3 players & J&L.

There always ways to prevent botting~ to define what we stop better; preventing botting that opens doors to exploiting (see ladyGoo bot exploits as an example) or the need of bots (example fishing).

Don't we already have this in the game? 10, 20, 40, 80, 160 ect... are when how effective things are doubled.

Semi there. but it has been pretty drastically changed. it use to effect weight in combat.
dafel gives an example of hp(con) being highly nerfed with this system. what means people cant just super boost con and be gods.

@ladyGoo
give up with your sap story no one is buying it anymore. We all already know that what was missing with stat cap was the end game, cuz J&L went able to provide it they just sayed fk it and gave you what you wanted at the time.

[sMartins]

I see the maths peanut gallery is out in force tonight. The logarithmic functions have no asymptote, horizontal or not.

Come on man, i guess you understand what i meant...not for x going to zero, but for x going to infinite, otherwise y go infinite the same, so we need to change the function with an asymptote....i'm doing my best trying to explain, i guess it's not enough

With this system, from what i understood, now there is no difference in a fight between 2 chars, A=100, B=200 and other 2 chars, C=1000, D=2000...and if this is the case, it's what we were talking before, C and D should be closer in combat( R attack weight/defenses,etc..) than A and B.

But i guess complex function would be "heavy" for the code, idk...so maybe it's not possible in this way.

[loftar]

Come on man, i guess you understand what i meant...not for x going to zero, but for x going to infinite, otherwise y go infinite the same, so we need to change the function with an asymptote....i'm doing my best trying to explain, i guess it's not enough :D

Of course I understand what you're talking about. That's why I tell you that what you're talking about is not asymptotes. It may be vaguely related to asymptotes to the extent that you want a strictly bounded function, but a logarithm is not bounded.

But i guess complex function would be "heavy" for the code, idk...so maybe it's not possible in this way.

It's not like the server needs to calculate a million combat deltas per second, so that's not a problem.

[loftar]

Doesn't set a limit to stats, keeps the unlimited stat grind in the game.

Just a little by the by, while your suggestion doesn't set a stat cap in the strict sense of the term, it does set an effective stat cap. It is effectively the exact same suggestion as this, so you may as well discuss it there.

[Potjeh]

The exact function aside (logistic curve, maybe?), that's a dead set no on capping actual effects of stats even if it lets you keep stat pushing? How is that supposed to work with theoretically infinite duration worlds and no limitations on botting?

[sMartins]

but a logarithm is not bounded

Yeah i know, i'm dumb but not so dumb

Now i'm curious, how would you implement this " decaying combat ratio"? Perahaps simply with some % over a certain amount of stats? Is this the easy way?

[ricky]

I may not be a maths guy, but I do know how to use maths wrong enough to make the real maths guy respond, so i'll consider it a win.

[loftar]

that's a dead set no on capping actual effects of stats even if it lets you keep stat pushing?

To be fair, "capping actual effects" can be thought in various quite different ways, so there's no simple answer to that question. For instance, the agility bonus in combat is strictly capped to between 0.5 and 2.0, as you surely know, but it is calculated on the ratio between the combatants' agility values, so it still means different things no matter how high you level up. Does that count as capping to you?

Now i'm curious, how would you implement this " decaying combat ratio"? Perahaps simply with some % over a certain amount of stats? Is this the easy way?

There are very many functions that satisfy your definition, logarithms being among them. Which one you'd choose would depend on the effects you'd actually want, of course.